Water Street Alley
David Miller -- September 4th, 2007
The steel beams beneath the pedestrian bridge are deteriorating, making the bridge unsafe. These same beams support much of the building to the west of the bridge, in order to complete repairs that building will need to be supported while the beams are replaced.
All Parties have now agreed to a contract and we are waiting for a signed version of a contract. Lane Construction of Connecticut is the contractor for the project. This company oversaw the renovations for the Reservoir Street Bridge. The company has a branch in Chantilly.
While efforts will be made to minimize the inconvenience to businesses and downtown users, there is no way to avoid some complications.
The south side of the sidewalk along Water Street will remain open for the majority of the project. The north side of the sidewalk will remain open with the exception of the area directly impacted by the work. Three ten-hour spaces will be used in the Water Street Parking Deck for Construction supplies. Water Street will be closed for brief periods of time to allow the use of a crane in the project. The Water Street Parking Deck will remain open throughout the project
Work will begin within the next three weeks or less. Businesses will be notified when a firm start date has been agreed upon. Estimated time for completion is 90-120 days. This is the shortest estimate of all those received; other contractors estimated 6 months or more.
All questions should be directed to Roger Baker: 540-432-7701.
Editor’s Note: This issue was reportedly resolved back in early January. According to those reports, the alleyway was to have been reopened this summer. Obviously, that never happened.
I believe that alleyway has been closed for about a year and a half now. I counted 17 months.
Oh, Roger Baker’s in charge — better double both the time and the cost estimates!
If you read the post you’ll find that the city is taking care to address downtown merchant’s and patron’s concerns. I thank them for that
Why do you like to carry water for City Government, David?
Suppose they took 18 months to grant you a business license, pick up garbage, fix a stop light, respond to traffic accidents, or, fix an overpass? Would you be OK with that?
It’s simply inexcusable that City Government took 18 months to even begin to get a resolution to the pedestrian bridge problem.
Ask Donna if she was OK with the length of time it’s taken to fix the walkway…I bet the answer would clearly be NO.
As I understand it, the issue was not just finding a contractor to bid the work, but also negotiating with the current owner of the old Spanky’s building, as part of the tab for repair was his responsibility. Had it been only the city footing the bill, I imagine it would have happened faster.
Delaying the repair and/or the negotiation only HELPS the private building owner’s leverage in this case. Harrisonburg citizens won’t get up in arms at Randy because the bridge isn’t getting fixed – and he knows that. They’ll blame the gov’t.
I have as many problems with Gov’t (in general) as anyone. But as a taxpayer, I’d rather that they get a fair deal in the end with our tax dollars rather than buckling and paying for the whole repair just so that the project can be done in 6 months.
Exactly
The government could have chosen to repair the problem and then billed Randy…I would imagine that someone who is considered to be savvy in real estate should have inspected the foundation to the building before he bought it.
So you’re OK in applying the issue of extensive delays to any project the City undertakes as long as the impact of city taxpayers dollars results in a “fair deal” to taxpayers?
Dave
I understand better than most how Donna feels. Business loss due to construction woes is terrible.
Your accusation of me carrying water for the City Government is strange. I’ll say it again. The city doesn’t own the property. The city was never responsible for fixing the property. The city saw fit (via citizen feedback like mine) to interject in the problem to provide a solution for you and I. Thank God.
Otherwise it would have been on the property owners to fix their own property.
I’ve got a driveway I really need paved. Would you vote with me to use our taxpayer dollars to do so?
Sorry Dave but that’s how it works; unless you’re a commie.
Wait a minute.
The City doesn’t own any part of the property we’re discussing here? I was under the impression that the City owned the walkway.
If the City doesn’t own any of the property then they never should have gotten involved. Clearly, the property owners should be financially responsible for the cost of the repairs.
If the property owners were unable to afford to effect repairs on their property(ies), then the City should have condemned the properties, or, effected repairs and then put liens on the properties until and unless the property owners made the city “whole” for the repairs.
Sorry, David, I didn’t realize the City had no property ownership in this matter.
That having been said now, David, why would I been in favor of taxpayer dollars being used to repair this property any more than paying to pay your “driveway”?
I’d love to be able to comment on this but since I work for one of the parties involved its best I don’t. Let me just say, that you all really don’t know all that has happened here and all that has been attempted.
Dave
You know full well the circumstances surrounding this. You are a very attentive citizen, I’m sure that you have been following this.
DM,
Obviously those of us who believe in civilization, and choose to participate in it instead of living in relative isolation, are happy when a project such as the sidewalk can finally come together. Thanks for bringing us up to date. Good luck to you and to the jambalaya restaurant during construction.
JF
Actually, David, I have been under the impression that it was property partially owned by the City and partially by Randy.
Emmy
Fair enough, I really don’t need to either. I’m glad to have sparked debate on the topic but was more interested in an informed public.
I’m glad you posted this to give everyone an update. I wasn’t aware that construction was to begin soon and I’m glad that it is. I like that walkway and it will be nice to have it open again.
The cause of the problem is rust and corrosion. If anyone is interested to see what the underside of the walkway and old Spanky’s building looked like 17 months ago, I’ve uploaded some pics (compliments of the city).
Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3
Pic 4
Pic 5
Wow, Brent, I had no idea the underneath was so bad. Moisture from the creek, I’m sure, but wonder how they will repair and keep it from reoccuring in 10 years.
Guys, seriously for one moment please, I read this and was curious as to the effects downtown.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2155030,00.html
I already know, so you don’t have to say it but I wasn’t aware anyone else even considered it here.
The bridge/tunnel near GoLookOn biulding doesn’t seem to be that bad but I could be wrong…for heavens sake…
Hey Christa, good evening…as an answer maybe this company can help…
http://nationalformwork.com/?gclid=CKqY34qwq44CFReQGgoduRZeYg
hmmm… the pictures are interesting. I just feel for whichever city employee had to climb down to take them :) I cannot wait to have the walkway re-opened. No more climbing over the barricades! (not that I have ever done this of course…)
I’m not surprized that the city is going to bail the owner out of his jam. He has been a strong donor to many Republican campaigns over the years and alot of people felt he got special treatment when he bought the old school board building.
I’m afraid I’m with David on this. When someone buys a property they take responsibility for making sure that property doesn’t have flaws or hazards. Has anybody heard of another buyer of a downtown building receiving help with say removing asbestos or fuel tanks or any other such liability?
If the City owns none of the real property involved, I’d really like to hear the City’s explanation for going forward with the repairs AND NOT placing liens on the affected property owner’s property for the difference in what they are willing to pay as “their share” of the costs v. the actual dollar amount the City spends for the repairs.
F.Y.I.,
Ward is Myron Rhodes…Just so you all know who it is.
fraid not, Benny.
You ever going to answer ANY questions put to you?
Do it on the blogs or I’ll get to you on WSVA…I promise.
Nope Benny, I’m not Myron, I’m Ward. Don’t try to think so hard, you’ll get a headache.
Oh and Finnegan, don’t worry, I only comment once in a while and I refuse to argue with people who live to argue. If it starts I just won’t comment.
Dave Briggman, You’ve probably seen my other posts and comments that I often encourage fellow hburgnews-ers and citizens to call appropriate City staff when they have questions. If its really important to you, I strongly urge you to give Roger Baker a call (434-7701), same number finnegan listed above, and ask him that question you have. Its a good question and I think that you and anyone who wants to know deserves to know the answer.
Several City staff members have shared with me why it has taken this long to get the bridge repairs resolved, and as a Harrisonburg resident who frequents downtown, I am definately satisified with their efforts in working with the appropriate parties to have gotten where they are now. I would make comment on what I know, but I fear that the issue is so complicated that I might butcher the story and spread false information. Sometimes its best to get information from the source.
Thanh,
Roger Baker has proven that he’s the City employee most likely to lie to constituents or, god forbid, we County residents. He’s straight-out lied TWICE when he used to appear on WSVA.
City officials read this blog, even a Republican who SHOULD no better than to use taxpayer dollars to repair private property…he’s even COMMENTED on this blog…he’s actually been the most outstanding of the three who were elected back in the last election.
Charlie?
Thanh you feel the same way that I do about this.
“I would make comment on what I know, but I fear that the issue is so complicated that I might butcher the story and spread false information. Sometimes its best to get information from the source.”
I agree, its best to go right to the parties involved and ask. Ward…you couldn’t be more wrong. There isn’t any political back scratching going on here. The city has responsibility and ownership in this matter and I’m sure they can explain that to you. This has been in the paper quite a few times and nothing is being hidden. It is a bit complicated, but its being resolved now and from what I understand its going to be pretty nice once its all done.
I’m not certain the newspaper has been clear in it’s articles…I was pretty certain the city owned at least part of the problem area.
David Miller wrote above:
“I’ve got a driveway I really need paved. Would you vote with me to use our taxpayer dollars to do so?”
He doesn’t seem to feel the same way about this, although clearly the city appears to be footing some of the expenses to Randy See and Roger Ritchie aren’t stuck footing a huge bill.
Well Dave, like I said before, I’m not going to say anymore about it than I already have. You can look into it yourself if you are so inclined. It’s not what you think it is though.
If you want to see the property lines for yourself, you can find fairly accurate images on the city’s GIS Website. http://arcims.ci.harrisonburg.va.us/website/city/viewer.htm
It might take a few minutes to find it. You’ll have to turn off the flood pain layers, then scroll down and hit the refresh button, but it should give a better understanding of the parties involved.
I do read this blog and really enjoy and am educated by it. Hopefully a quick response. Dave’s summary is dead on. Regarding some other issues. The City’s ownership interest in the pedestrian bridge/”alley” is by virtue of an old easement that runs from Water Street to Court Square. The beams supporting the pedestrian bridge rest on piers attached to Randy See’s building. His building will have to be supported while the beams are replaced. $100,000 of the costs of the repairs will be supplied by Randy See. For you downtowners, we hopefuly will be able to upgrade the “alley” to streetscape standards at the same time. Hope this is informative.
Charlie
And that’s why Charlie’s a great guy…I really like him.
Thank you Charlie!
Mr. Chenault,
Who will have ownership of the walkway when the work is completed?
As long as the city “owns’ the easement, it will own the improvements. If the easement is ever abandoned, the improvements that cannot be removed will belong to the owner of the real estate burdened by the easement. As far as I know, this easement crosses two properties, Randy See and Chuck Sellers.
An access easement is not the same as owner ship. It just gives the right to cross through the property. Even though the city does not own any property, I do think that they are doing the right thig in repairing the alley way. It provides access from the parking deck to the court service buildings, and a lot of down town businesses. The difference between repaving my driveway and fixing the alley is that my driveway provides no public access to anything, the alley does.
I just walked over the bridge (despite the “barriers”) and literally almost heaved. The smell was so rancid, it was unbearable. I held my breathe and ran past it. Blacks Run is an open sewer tonight, it seems.
Kai,
The odor problem is a very common complaint. We have investigated the area sev3eral times and can’t find a source. The interesting thing is that it seems to be worse at night. Most complaints have been in either Friday or Saturday night. I don’t know if thats because people are out and about or something is happening. Blacks Run tends to stink anyway, especially if something stirs up the sediment. I don’t know that it is any worse than any other local stream in that respect. One possibility is that the wind is blowing through the culvert under the jail and just pulling out the stench that has built up under there. It is pretty smelly under there.
Anyway, if anyone should notice anything else along with the smell, (oily sheen on the water or discoloration or suspicious activity) that would give a clue to the source of the stronger smell, please post it here or e-mail me at samh@ci.harrisonburg.va.us or Than Dang at Thand@ci.harrisonburg.va.us.
Anyone taken a peek at this lately? Appears they have completely removed the bridge and the building to the west is held up by new concrete pads with some temporary posts.
There’s an article in the DNR today about the repairs/project – http://www.dnronline.com/news_details.php?AID=14585&CHID=1