wind farm discussion at Clementine
Brent Finnegan -- January 21st, 2008
You may have heard about the Highland County wind farm in the local or national media. There’s an ongoing conflict between Highland New Wind LLC, which wants to erect turbines for renewable energy, and locals and environmentalists who don’t want wind turbines marring the scenery. Now the legislators are intervening.
The Shenandoah Sierra Club will be hosting a forum regarding the wind farm tomorrow (Tueasday) at 7 p.m. at Clementine in downtown Harrisonburg.
Speakers John Flora and Rick Webb will discuss the positive and negative impacts of the project, and will answer questions afterwards.
John Flora is an attorney representing Highland New Wind Development, LLC.
Rick Webb is a senior scientist for the University of Virginia’s Department of Environmental Sciences. He served on the National Research Council’s Committee on Environmental Impacts of Wind Energy Projects that earlier this year released a report to Congress on energy projects in the highlands of the Mid-Atlantic region.
It might be worth going just to get firsthand peak at the new restaurant.
I would highly recommend that anyone with any interest in wind power attend this meeting. Rick Webb is not known for his unbiased perspective, and I would hate to see him be successful in his attempts to make the entire state of VA unfriendly to clean energy.
I have personally witnessed him proclaim that coal-fired power plants are a better source of energy than wind power, because “coal is getting cleaner”. Mr. Webb mis-uses his position as a scientist within the Environmental Science department at UVA, with no energy background to speak of, to spread a particular brand of self-interested nonsense that is designed to poison discussions of renewable energy before they
can even begin. He is involved in this issue primarily because he has a home in Highland County.
He targets those who are not already informed, and do not have the tools to inform themselves.
hlestyan,
as i was reading your comment i couldn’t help but wonder why you anticipate such a strong statement against wind energy from mr. webb. then i read this: “He is involved in this issue primarily because he has a home in Highland County. ” just like ted kennedy! sorry that’s not necessary. i just like to point out that personal interests often trump environmental progressivism with no regard for party politics. actually, i just like to take a shot at ted kennedy whenever i get a chance. chappaquiddick. oh wow, that really was unnecessary.
seriously though, this sounds like a really interesting forum and i hope both sides will be well represented.
I’ve been to Monterey numerous times growing up, and have always loved the natural beauty of that area. I’ll have to check this out.
I have read Mr. Webb’s objections to the proposed wind farm. I have yet to find a single empirically verifiable fact that validates his contentions. So Mr. Webb, how about some demonstrable and observable facts. I would also appreciate it if hburgnews would stop deleting my post. It contains nothing other than a plea for some objective facts.
I work with a group of high school students locally and had a great discussion last night after watching part of “Amazing Grace” on how it was possible that people could fight to keep slavery at that time.
Personal interest, especially when it involves finances, is very powerful and influential in people’s decision process regardless of the moral, environmental or other implications.
One of the most consolidated soures of wind power factsheets is the American Wind Energy Association: http://www.awea.org/pubs/factsheets.html
It is very tempting to say that wind power advocates should take the higher ground and not engage with Mr. Webb and his ilk. Unfortunately, silence in the face of his misinformation campaign often lends him undue credibility. It is vital to be as informed as possible so that real scientific evidence can be used to educate people who might be otherwise swayed.
There is no perfect source of energy, and we are a long ways off from discovering one. The options are either electricity sources hidden away, with infrastructure that is someone else’s problem, while you live amongst invisible pollution in the air you breathe and the food you eat. Or you can have more visible electricity sources that do not contribute pollution, but that serve as visible reminders to our consumption habits.
Seven Generations will be doing several screenings during coming months of documentaries dealing with just such issues.
The next one planned after Maxed Out — Monday the 28th of January, is tentatively set for March 11th, also at the Court Square Theater.
The movie for March is “Mountain Top Removal.”
Having been to numerous windfarms all across the country, they are a great addition to nations renewable power supply.
I’ve also been to lots of coal power plants and coal mines.
Which would you rather have:
A coal plant…
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/239889708-L.jpg
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/239893341-L.jpg
or a wind farm..
5 miles from site:
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/197252741-L.jpg
and a few from on the site:
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/197261031-L.jpg
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/197270905-L.jpg
Standing in the middle of the windfarms, the turbines are silently turning. The wind is far louder than the turbines.
Coal plants? Not so much. Lots of machinery and truck traffic, etc.
One more picture..
This one is the Mt. Storm array on Backbone Mountain up by Davis, WV
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/1043086-L.jpg
The road runs thru the gap a hair higher than the windfarm, so you can get a really impressive view of the turbines from close to hub height.
Hub height for modern (2004 and on) wind turbines are typically 80 meters (262 feet). Rotor diameters are 40 meters, so the blades at the lowest point are 40 meters (131 feet) above the ground.
This particular installation is built on a rehabilitated coal strip mine between Thomas and Davis, WV. It’s about a 2-2.5 hour drive from Harrisonburg, and well worth the trip just to see them in my opinion.
Yeah I’ve never understood the opposition to wind farms on the grounds of their supposed ugliness. Great comparison to coal plants, JW. Our energy has to come from somewhere. I’ll never forget riding in a van through Albania and smelling crude oil for miles – the visual and olfactory impression was that the land was being destroyed and I wouldn’t want to live anywhere near THAT kind of energy production.
From November on rockdem.blogspot.com
http://rockdem.blogspot.com/2007/11/charting-our-energy-future-part-1.html
Cletus, your comment was being held because I had reason to believe that either one person was posting under two names, or you were impersonating another commenter.
We don’t arbitrarily hold or delete comments.
And technically, you are still violating the comment rules. Your email is not legitimate. Please abide by the very simple guidelines.
Typical NIMBY. We preach but we don’t practice, we desire but we won’t sacrifice.
Is wind power the answer to our energy problem? No, not at this stage of innovation, the towers are big and decimates populations of migratory birds that use the same prevailing winds that wind farms exploit. BUT AT LEAST SOMEONE IS THINKING OF ALTERNATIVE, RENEWABLE RESOURCES!! It’s a start, and in direct contrast to the “energy plan” put forth by the fossil fuel industry (read: Bush Administration).
VA should be commended for their efforts, it is not often that VA gets publicity for being progressive.
Kyle,
Actually cars, cats and sliding glass doors decimate more migratory birds (and birds in general) than windturbines.
Statistically, the average wind turbine kills 3 birds a year. I think my cat might rack up more than that in a month.
Two articles (of many) on Horns Rev, the largest windfarm in the North Sea. It sits in the middle of the migratory path lots of European birds. Lots of studies on bird turbine interactions, and for the most part, the turbines don’t affect the birds during migration. They fly around and below the rotors, not up around hub height.
http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/18167/
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48278
Very good event.
Many thanks to the Shenandoah Chapter of the Sierra Club for putting this together.
Thanks also to John Flora and Rick Webb (alphabetical order) for providing alternate views to what should become our focus. How we deal with energy… Both production and usage…
We are an exceedingly wasteful people, bottom line.
Gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins, and we are guilty.
Something like eighty five percent of the energy we consume is simply wasted.
We need, must have, cannot survive as a society without, a realistic, honest, comprehensive, and effective energy policy and direction for the near and long term future. And in my mind that goes far beyond conquering every oil producing region of the world……..
The Shenandoah Sierra Club has made a good step in bringing this discussion forward.
I was especially heartened to see that the fifty plus individuals, who came out on a Tuesday evening, were primarily young people. For it is the young people of today’s society, who will ultimately deal with the results of the shortsighted and spendthrift policies and behaviors of today.
It is also youth of today, who will come up with the solutions.
And I want to also add…
Clementine is a wonderful addition to downtown Harrisonburg!
Great evening!
Great forum tonight! It was great to see so many people interested in the subject – and truly learn how insignificant industrial wind turbine facilities are in the grand scheme of things. Rick Webb clearly backed up all of his facts with scientific evidence, while Jon Flora belly-ached about the drawn-out process that “Highland New Wind Development” has had to “suffer.”
I rarely make comments since they seem to be a waste of human energy, but I can not stand the misinformation going on any more! People wake up!
Most everything that proponents write about in favor of their arguments can be used against them. Case in point:
-“Rick Webb is not known for his unbiased perspective.”
- So you mean that the developer’s attorney, John Flora, who consistently whined about regulations and only gave idealistic quotes about the “pros” of wind turbines, is not biased to give his positive opinion about this wind facility? Give me a break!
-“Personal interest, especially when it involves finances, is very powerful and influential in people’s decision process regardless of the moral, environmental or other implications.”
- This is so true! Especially since the only real green involved in this project is the millions of dollars that the developer, McBride, will receive, just like anyone else whose interested in receiving government subsidies on such false “perfect” energy. Money is the only reason the developer wants to continue this project, not environmental reasons. I mean, seriously, why else would he shell out personal money fight to develop them for 5 years? Because he’ll make it all back tenfold if erected!
-“Silence in the face of his misinformation campaign often lends him undue credibility.”
- Rick Webb backed up his statements with research every time he spoke tonight. And he answered the tough questions asked of his background and better ways of alternative energy. Look below for more info.
-“BUT AT LEAST SOMEONE IS THINKING OF ALTERNATIVE, RENEWABLE RESOURCES!”
- So is Rick Webb and all opponents of wind turbine development. We don’t just oppose wind farms. We are the people that oppose coal and mountain top removal, just like you. But we know that rather than wanting to believe in something that seems so perfect just to feel better about ourselves, we want REAL solutions to lower energy consumption.
Rick Webb made no denial that he has been a life-long opponent of mountain top coal removal and has fought battles against coal companies and their damaging effects. He was even asked tonight of what alternative he would support – and he said offshore wind development, but even more importantly: basic, individual steps to reduce energy in personal lifestyles, i.e. turning off lights when leaving a room, changing lights to incandescent, driving less, etc. Everyone there heard this, unlike those writing posts on this page. Look at how intelligent the above comment is – the man attended the meeting and clearly stated his beliefs respectfully. How about the rest of you – were you there, or are you just writing like you know what you’re talking about?
So here’s the thing: With current technology, wind turbines will never offset a coal company or make them close down. They will never lower our dependency on foreign oil. They will never be the main source of energy for any country. They are a pipe dream for idealists who hear the word “green” and jump on the bandwagon without using common sense – and corporations have now caught on and are ready to get in on this cash-cow. Simple as that.
Here’s the bottom line: this is not an energy issue. This is a Highland County issue. It’s a fact that this facility will hardly make a dent in overall energy generation. This is an issue that has at stake one of the last, truly pristine, historical, and rural places in America. If you have not been to Highland, then you have no input on the subject at hand. Actually, if you don’t live there, you really shouldn’t have any input, sort of like McBride, the developer, who lives cozily in Harrisonburg. Why do I say this? Because you don’t know the hours that residents have put in to stop the turbine development. Because you don’t know that Highland’s board of supervisors made illegal moves to accommodate this facility. Because you don’t know that Highland New Wind Development, LLC would not comply with state regulations because they don’t have honest answers for them. Because you don’t know there is still NO site plan for the project. Because you don’t know the board of supervisors ignored the MAJORITY of Highland Citizens and over a thousand who signed petitions and spoke against the project. Because you don’t know that it will bring no jobs to the county, ruin tourism, and just bring in a “proposed” amount of revenue every year. Because you don’t know how truly special it is to still have a place of wild Appalachian back country with no industrial sites period. I am proud to say I’m from Highland and do not want my piece of mind taken away by people who shouldn’t have any stake in it. Basically, I just wish people would stop commenting on this like they know it all. I admit I don’t know everything and even some things I have written may be skewed in one way or another, but I know the real issues and history behind them in relation to Highland. Please try to understand this from my point of view. Just like I have an opinion on the war in Iraq, but don’t assert it on others because I have no idea what it’s like over there or the honest facts about that situation, I urge you to not assert your opinions about this wind project if you don’t know the honest facts about Highland County’s involvement in it. Thanks for reading. And as for websites, try these out:
http://www.wind-watch.org/news
http://www.windaction.org
http://www.vawind.org
Green, you are obviously passionate about this issue. You say your views ‘may be skewed’. That is an understatement. But you are entitled to them — just like everyone else who may post here.
The energy problem won’t be solved unless there is money to be made. You want to leave it up to the government spending your tax dollars to come up with the solution? History has proven that won’t likely happen. Private industry will solve this long before the governmnt, and they’ll do it because there is some green in it. Plain and simple. That’s how the world works.
Wind power will not be the total solution. I think everyone knows that. It can be PART of the solution. Some European countries already generate more than 10% of their total consumption from wind energy. While that may not be shutting down any coal or nuclear plants, it may be preventing the construction of new ones, which is good with me.
Also, putting a wind farm ANYWHERE is not about reducing consumption. It is about offsetting consumption from ‘dirtier methods’ of energy production. People have been preaching about the reduction of energy usage forever — I am 40 years old and I remember my Dad yelling at me when I left the light on in my room as a little kid. Reducing consumption is not a new idea — and look where it has gotten us.
This is not a perfect solution. It is important to note that there is no perfect solution — and if we wait until one comes along, no action will EVER take place.
I would be curious to see how things would look had the “pro” Highland presentation been given by someone who was well-versed in the benefits of wind power in general, rather than the intricacies of Highland New Wind’s struggle to be approved by the state and local government. While I am sure that has been frustrating, multi-year permitting and environmental studies are the norm for wind projects, and in fact are vital in understanding seasonal variation in wildlife and mitigating any potential impact.
The main problem I see with Mr. Webb’s presentation is that he presents quasi-scientific information in a distorted fashion, designed to appeal to emotional, rather than rational thinking. As a scientist, he should know better.
For instance, he speaks of massive amounts of avian carnage. However, there has only been one instance of multiple bird deaths at a wind farm on the east coast, in WV, and it was directly attributed to 33 birds colliding with the project’s towers and substation during a particular evening of storms and low ceiling. Hundreds of millions of bird deaths annually are attributed to birds colliding with cell towers, guy wires, and tall buildings. The World Health Organization estimates that 40,000 people in the US alone die each year as a result of outdoor air pollution. An estimated one million species will be extinct as a result of pollution and climate change by 2050; how will the mountains ridges look then? The wind industry has been assiduously studying the avian issue for decades; to say the issues are unstudied and not of concern is a complete untruth. Within three months of the bat mortality event at Mountaineer, the wind industry had formed a coalition with Bat Conservation International to study the problem and propose solutions; studies are ongoing, and no similar events have transpired.
Mr. Webb says that 8,000 turbines will be required to provide the 4,000 additional MW of power that VA requires over the coming years, and that it will cover all of the ridges of VA. No one has ever proposed that; no one would ever propose that- it is bizarre to suggest that is in any way a potential reality. The vast majority of land in VA is not going to be suitable for wind development because 1) it won’t have the necessary resource 2) it will have critical habitat 3) it will be too proximate to Wilderness, State Parks, scenic areas, the AT, Blue Ridge Parkway, etc 4) it will have too much development, in the form of houses 5) there will be no viable transmission line to interconnect. Maybe, in most optimistic of scenarios, you could develop 600 MW of wind power in VA. Using the smallest 1.5 MW turbines, spaced as tightly as possible at 8 turbines per mile (Mr. Webb’s calculation), that would require only 50 miles of ridge.
Not everyone is so lucky to live in a pristine environment; some people live next door to refineries, or chemical plants, or even in densely populated cities. The reason Highland county has become such a haven is that there is no coal or industry to mar the landscape. As long as we keep the coal plants in Wise, and the nuclear power plants in Lousia and Southside VA, those of us able to live someplace else don’t have to look at them.
Much of the coal that is used in Virginia comes from Canada. Most of the natural gas that is used in the US comes from Canada. Most of the uranium that is used in the US comes from Canada. We are a long way off from energy independence, and it will take the efforts of many to reorganize the way that electricity is generated in this country. Who is to say that all of Virginia should be exempt from having to share part of this process? Is it fair to count on the other states doing as much as they can to reduce their dependence upon fossil fuels and adopt renewable energy, while Virginia maintains the status quo? Will we really ask everyone else is able to pickup our slack?
The meeting last night was a decent forum. I was impressed by the large turnout.
To take Mr. Webb at his words alone and too pay the briefest attention to his presentation of graphs would leave most saying:
“A thoughtful guy, who really knows his stuff..”
However, if you really look at his facts and figures they don’t reflect reality.
For instance his charts depict 1.5 MW wind turbines for all his power requirements and turbine numbers. 1.5 MW turbines are being phased out, all the new turbines are 2.0-2.5 MW range. So that in itself would cut out 30-60% of the turbines he mentions being needed for “August and September for 4000 MW”.
Working with renewables and wins turbine projects allows one to know what “capacity factor” for a wind farm means, and how that effects power generation. Capacity factor is a year-long average not a monthly figure. Certainly you have variable winds, and certain months you have more, and some less. But as Mr. Webb tries to make his case based on solely 60 days out of 365 in a year, he’s looking for the absolute worst case scenario and expounding on it.
As mentioned above, there is no silver bullet. No one power source is going to magically appear and replace fossil fuels. It’s all things together that are going to make a difference.
Conservation- The biggest issue is we use too much power. Every $1 conserved is worth $3-8 of new installed base load power.
However, you can’t conserve your way out a baseload. No matter how much you cut back, you still are going to need powerplants of some kind.
Renewable- Wind, Solar, Tidal, Geothermal, Biomass, et. al. Each one has it’s problems, none is a perfect solution. For areas that are suited to them, they should be used in an appropriate manner.
JW,
The studies that I was referring to included the Altamont Pass turbines in California, which found that the blades killed between 5-10 thousand birds each year, many of them raptors like Golden Eagles, owls, and hawks. Another study, this one on the impact of existing turbines on Backbone Mountain in WV, found that they killed about 4,000 bats each year.
I admit that I did also find other studies where the numbers weren’t quite so high, but those studies were quoted by the industry so they are a little suspect.
I stated at the event last night what I wanted. I wanted a cost/benefit analysis. I want to know how much coal these wind mills will displace and how many birds and bats the coal would have killed vs. how many birds and bats the windmills are going to kill. That’s a simple approach that quantifies the problem. I know that it is difficult to project kills but there are groups on both sides doing just that, average the two.
That being said, if I lived in Highland County and someone wanted put those things on the mountains surrounding me, I’d be fighting them too. From what I understand, the windmills will be visible from 250 and four neighbors; I don’t consider that even close to a damn Wal-Mart in your town! The problem is that we live under the rule of capitalism. These “developers” are not evil people from some Bond movie. They are concerned citizens who have researched a technology that they think can benefit them and us at the same time. If they are wrong then we need legislation that would require a 2/3 vote by the affected populations to approve such a project or disband it forever. I’m sure that Mr. Flora would have preferred a quicker yay/nay vote. Well maybe, he’s still getting a paycheck either way, but I can guarantee that Highland New Wind Development, LLC would have preferred that route.
Kyle,
The Altamont pass site has been a problem since it’s installation 27 years ago.
It is in a unique environment, and certainly one that was not well thought out with regards to birds. The turbines at Altamont pass are very small, mostly under 440 KW. This means they have small rotor diameters, many magnitudes of scale smaller than ANY modern turbine.
To make power with these older turbines rotors turned at 40+ rpm, and sometimes higher. To give you some perspective, a modern 2.0 MW Vestas or GE turbine turns at 10-15 rpm, lazy in comparison. The equivalent blade tip speed is the same, roughly 200 mph, but the faster turning rotor almost dissapears. It’s like looking at a bicycle wheel turning slowly versus turning fast. At slow speed you can see the spokes, and when it goes fast enough you stop seeing them.
So these older turbines at Altamount (and Tehachapi, another site with a raptor problem) spin faster than a modern turbine. 27 years has made a big difference in everything from TV’s to cars and it has for wind turbines too.
Here is a good pictures of the wind turbines at Thachapi, they are the same units installed at Altamont:
http://www.windland.com/images/History/TehachapiWinter.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Tehachapi_wind_farm_3.jpg/800px-Tehachapi_wind_farm_3.jpg
You’ll see a few things that are in immediate contrast with the pictures I posted earlier.
1) These older smaller turbines were installed much more densely than modern turbines. Typically you need 3-4 rotor diameters between turbines side to side, so the larger the turbines the farther apart they MUST be. The small turbines used back then were jammed together 30+ to a square mile. Nowadays you’ll have less than 8 turbines, and producing much more power.
2) All modern turbines use a solid support tower. They have to for the massive weight. For instance, a modern turbine gearbox weighs a minimum of 30,000 lbs. They only go up from there. The older turbines, particularly the ones put up in Alatamont and Tehachapi, tended to have lattice frame towers.
The problem with lattice frames is one that no one really thought about, cause if they’d have given it 30 minutes of thought they never would have used them. The problem is simple, birds like them. Birds love to nest on lattice towers, be they cell phone towers, communications/radio towers, you name it. They’ll nest on them in a heartbeat.
So you combine a high raptor population, a bunch of small-ish fast spinning blades, and small birds (prey) nesting in towers… you get the expected. Lots of dead raptors.
The current thought from the biology folks is that the raptors will hunt over the turbine sites. When they spot prey they tend to focus on it so much that they can’t/don’t see the turbine rotors.
A lot of these sites that have been upgraded to larger turbines over the years. Here is a great video of Tehachapi pass, you can see the older turbines, small lattice towers, and the modern larger turbines in the background:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9wD1fd9yWOc
JW,
Thanks for the info, obviously my info was dated. I’m glad to hear about the advances in technology, innovation and environmental impact theory. You post is excellent and obviously took some time to compose, thanks for doing that, I’m definately better informed because of it.
The only problem I see is that the turbines are too high and small for me to charge in my Don Quixote kind of way. :-)
Check out this op ed for some interesting opinion from the Adirondacks
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/16/opinion/16mckibben.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
It’s rather obvious that most people commenting favorably on the subject related to Highland Co. Virginia USA, Wind Farms in Highland, have never attended the many, many meetings which have been held over the last 4-5 years on this subject.
It is not O.K. for the pro wind advocates to say hey, its green, we need an alternative, and this is going to put a big dent in our power requirements. It is not O.K. to say that if we don’t have coal or nuclear power plants in Highland Co., that a wind generating facility is just fine. And, it is not O.K. to say that those opposing the wind farms do not want the government involved. Indirectly, that is why the wind turbines are in fact being proposed in western Va……do to the huge tax credits received if the wind farm is built. HNWD representatives themselves admit they cannot proceed with a project of this type w/o hugh government subsidy, which by the way may be as much as 80 percent of the total cost of the project. Don’t we all wish that farmers, just like ‘wind farmers’ as comparisons have been made, could get that type of subsidy, especially in the State of Virginia. Or, wouldn’t it be great for any individual or group, start-up farmer or businessman to be able to realize this windfall.
A comment was made earlier that Altamont Pass was a unique environment and was not thought out properly, which I imagine is supposed to be the excuse for excessive bird kills and other possible environmental damages. So, 25 years later, are we to assume that the Highland project has established necessary provisions to prevent similiar occurances when the proposed turbines to be placed on Allegheny Mtn. are significantly larger, yet at this time no absolute or specific bird/bat plan has been defined ? The pro wind enthusiasts just add more merit to their, NIMBY, by saying it is O.K. to place these in Highland Co. But, they don’t want them in their back yards, right?
While most Americans believe of the need for more use of alternative energy sources, there is widespread disagreement on the type of alternative energy to be used. It is generally known that wind energy is one of the most expensive and least efficient energy sources available. For instance, because of the immense and immediate growth of the JMU facility and, instead of JMU promoting the purchasing of electrical power from a proposed and controversial wind turbine facility in a neighboring community, wouldn’t it be more prudent and arguably, more cost effective, to just construct their own facilities. JMU and their students could benefit immensely from constructing a hydroelectric generating facility on Newman Lake thereby affording them hands-on experience in all aspects of development. An enclosed building could house the generating equipment and everything would be self contained within the boundaries of campus, with few environmental hazards created from this venture. As such, no undue or unknown burdens would be placed on surrounding communities who really don’t realize any benefits from such drastic proposals. And, if it would appear that such a proposal for alternative energy of this type is too controversial, then maybe the better alternative would be to just construct enough 400′ tall wind turbines around Newman Lake or other campus areas for JMU to be self-sufficient, energy-wise. Think about it. The neighboring communities won’t mind at all where or how you place your alternative energy sources, unless you place it on them.
By the way, I am a graduate of JMU, a proud resident of the State of Virginia living in Highland Co. USA and am for alternative energy sources. But, until the full facts have been presented, I am not for changing zoning and shoving any industrial generating facility down a communities face without majority acceptance. Shamefully, the aforementioned has not happened and never will.
“A comment was made earlier that Altamont Pass was a unique environment and was not thought out properly, which I imagine is supposed to be the excuse for excessive bird kills and other possible environmental damages. ”
You really should read the post, instead of glossing over it.
I’d gladly put a turbine in my backyard if it was big enough, sadly it’s not.. nor is it a good site from a wind potential standpoint.
Green Stands for Money = Rick Webb
Thanks for stopping by!
By the way, your arm is great for gesticulation, not so good for projecting your slideshow on.
Tax incentives- this is one of the largest fallacies that exist in the anti-wind argument. If it were all about tax incentives, and the power generation didn’t matter, don’t you think we would see faux windfarms all over the place- even in locations where it is not windy? If you get government money for just putting them up?
The incentives are less than two cents per kilowatt generated, and it is provided as a tax incentive. Therefore, you have to have a very large tax burden in order for the incentive to benefit you at all, and there are many restrictions on what entities can claim the tax incentive.
In fact, there is are suggestions from groups WITHIN the wind industry to phase out the production tax credit so that it doesn’t inflict unequal market conditions for the sale of power coming from wind farms built in PCT years vs. non-PCT years.
Wind power receives the least amount of government subsidy of any energy technology. Wind power has already proven itself to be less expensive that conventional fuels, in the face of rising natural gas prices.
Wind power works. It has been proven. You can manufacture scientific skepticism if you need it. To say that it is not well understood and needs to be studied more is the same type of false argument that was given for decades by those who decided to proclaim themselves global warming skeptics. Thirty years later, where are we?
I would gladly put a turbine in my backyard: 1,000ft from my residence, sited so that any operating noise would not measure more than 5 dBA above the mean background noise level. I encourage my friends and relatives to install wind turbines to offset their home energy usage.
I would love to live in a beautiful, remote location like Highland County, with a large wind turbine in my back yard (ideally feeding into a community electricity co-op). At this point in my working life, I place great value on my carbon-free commute to downtown Harrisonburg, and I cannot justify the prospect of driving more than an hour each direction to get my office from Highland County.
Can’t we have one place on the east coast that is left rural and undeveloped? Highland County is a special place. With all of the attention that the Chesapeake Bay gets, it’s easy to forget how lucky that we, as Virginians, are to have the Allegheny Highlands, especially Highland County. How many counties can claim to have one traffic light? I am amazed that it still exists. There is something about this place that transcends scenic views. Much more would be lost.
If we sacrifice such unique places to protect them against global warming, what are we protecting? If the amount of energy produced really could make a difference, I might be tempted to say that it is worthwile. Sadly, it is only 39 MW. To me, the harm caused far outweighs the benefits of this little amount of energy. After all, we are ultimately talking about a development to produce more energy. How much should we be consuming? What would it take to offset 39MW of energy through conservation? If wind is part of the solution, we need to make sure it is one that will truly makes a difference and not one that leaves us with regrets. Location, location, location is key. I think this is the WRONG PLACE!!!
What most concerns me about this, is how wind farms can slip through the cracks. We do not have a good process at the state level to determine the impacts of these projects. The SCC deferred to the Board of Supervisors on many of the environmental impacts. I am amazed that the company does not have to get a federal permit considering the potential harm to endangered species. If wind developers care about the environment, why are they doing everything possible to avoid a federal environmental review? Why not get this ball rolling from the beginning instead of waiting for 5 years or for a court to order it or for the major risk of noncompliance with federal laws if it is built without one and it does indeed harm endangered species? If this company wants to protect the environment, why aren’t they taking basic steps to ensure it is protected? Why avoid the environmental review to protect endangered species?
I am concerned about the cumulative impacts of these projects. What will be the impact to bird and bat species if several projects are built? We should be requiring site analyses to increase our understanding of what is a good location and what is unacceptable. What is the overall impact of multiple sites?
Finally, reading these comments and other articles about this development really disheartens me. The attacks against Mr. Webb and the ample number of Highland County residents that oppose it are completely inappropriate. What happened to caring for a place and working to protect it? The burden should fall on the developer to prove 400ft turbines in a county that had a height ordinance of what 50ft before this is acceptable. NIMBY is thrown around too lightly. Why resort to defaming others? That’s not to say that the company itself is doing this. But, there does seem to be a concerted effort to sling mud. To me, it is very upsetting. If we are utlimately working to protect our homes, land, communities, and wild places from global warming, tearing each other apart is no solution.
Allright, I’m a numbers kinda guy myself, so to shed a bit more light on what 39 MW of wind can do, I’ve run the numbers.
First to shed some light on a typical coal plant. (numbers are from here: http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_energy/fossil_fuels/offmen-how-coal-works.html and yes it’s a bit biased, but I checked the numbers versus some of my own, and the inputs and outputs are correct from what is typical for most coal plants)
Assume a 500 MW coal plant, used for baseload production.
Burns 1,430,000 tons of coal per year
Generates 3,500,000 MW of electrical power
and can power roughly 140,000 homes.
Calculating tonnage per MW-hr, yeilds 0.408 tons burned per MW-hr of production.
3,500,000 MW-hr / 140,000 homes = 25 MW-hrs per home per year.
So roughly every home would consume 10 tons of coal per year.
I think these numbers are for homes without electric heat, i.e. no heat pump, no baseboard heaters etc.
So let’s look at what 39 MW of windpower would get us.
And for sake of argument, since we didn’t specify where the coal plant is, lets all assume it’s somewhere else.. like Nebraska or Wyoming.
Well the first thing to do is to figure out how many MW-hr’s a wind turbine project might produce…
365 days * 24 hrs/day = 8760 hours per year.
As I’ve mentioned before, the wind doesn’t blow all the time and it caries alot. So we need to count that in as well.
Wind projects do this with what is called a capacity factor. Capacity factor definition: (http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/solar.renewables/rea_issues/wind.html)
” Capacity factor is defined as the actual annual wind farm energy output, in kilowatthours, divided by the rated maximum turbine output, in kilowatts, times 8,760 hours/year.”
Lets assume that these wind turbines have a capacity factor of 35%. This is a little on the low side for a wind project, with recent advances in turbine siting using computational fluid dynamics to model wind flows and terrain accurately this could be up in the 40-45% range.
So to calculate how much 39 MW of wind will produce a year is straight forward:
39 MW * 8,760 hours * 0.35 = 119,574 MW-hrs of electricity.
and using 25 MW-hrs per home
119,574 / 25 = 4,782.6 homes powered
if you use less than 25 MW-hrs, then of course this could power many more homes.
At the same time, 119,574 MW-hrs of generation replaces 48,854.52 tons of coal.
and one more numbers post for the day….
The production tax credit is $0.02 per kW-hr of production, or $20 per MW-hr.
So if a 39 MW project runs at a 35% capacity factor for the year, and generates 119,574 MW-hrs…
.. it receives only $2,391,480 for that years production tax credit.
Now… What does a wind turbine cost?
A general rule of thumb is 1.5 million dollars per MW of installed power.
So one 2 MW Vestas turbine will cost about $3 million installed.
19 turbines for a 39 MW project = $57 million dollar investment
You can begin to see that the PTC alone isn’t going to make anyone rich off a wind project.
Thank you JW, I appreciate numbers as well. Reason vs rationalization.
This is a great discussion!
Thanks to all participating!
I’d like to take a closer look at 39MW. How much of Virginia’s energy consumption is 39MW? I’d like to take a stab at getting a sense of this. I welcome input if I am looking at this wrong. This is a learning process for me.
According to the Energy Information Administration,(http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/state/state_energy_profiles.cfm?sid=VA) the total energy consumption for Virginia in 2004 was 2,558,202 billion Btu. Of course, this includes energy needs for transportation that a wind development will not affect, but it also includes industrial and commercial needs. Let’s look at just the residential consumption.
Residential consumption for VA in 2004 = 617,384 billion Btu
The residential energy consumption is the combined amount from coal, wood, kerosene, geothermal, etc.
What percentage of Virginia’s residential consumption in 2004 would the proposed development offset?
According to JW, a 39-MW project could generate 119,574 MW-hrs each year.
617,384 billion Btu = 180,937,389.59 MW-hrs
119,574 MW-hrs divided by 180,937,389.59 MW-hrs = .00066
That means that the energy generated from a 39-MW site (say the one proposed for Highland County) would produce .066% of Virginia’s total residential energy needs in 2004.
I think .066% of our residential energy needs is a drop in the bucket for the potential harm caused by the project. When you think about how small this is, you realize that we aren’t talking about offsets of coal. It’s hard to imagine that much would be offset by this. I would be VERY interested to see what the estimates are for potential offsets from conservation. What can we do to consume less instead of produce more?
I am not opposed to wind. I hope there is the potential to have these small parts add up to make somewhat of a difference. Still, we have to make sure appropriate sites are chosen. The location in Highland County is not appropriate.
P
It is interesting, to a point, to see the comments posted on this blog. Like the writers or readers, I know too that this forum offers generally only opinions which will serve no purpose in resolving whether wind in suitable for Highland Co. or anywhere for that reason. Anyone can crunch numbers and say it is cheaper or more expensive than other energy production methods. We can all confirm or deny the inclusion of federal tax subsidies, accelerated depreciation, production tax credits, Industrial Expansion Revitalization Credits….the list goes on. We can all argue about whether the bald and golden eagles living in and within the proposed ‘build area’ will be killed or sparred, whether the bat/bird kill will increase or decrease at certain times of the year; or, do cars really kill more birds than these turbines, or is it a numbers crunch…..do the cars passing within 5 miles of these wind turbines kill more birds or is that a national statistic. The noises, which sound like beating a sledgehammer against a steel plate…..are they coming from a worker trying to develop a steel statue, or is it from the continual change in temperature causing expansion/reduction of the steel within the towers themselvesl Or, how about if 400′ is O.K., why not go for 600′ or 800′ And, don’t forget about the additional aerial lines that will be necessary to build to be able to accept the additional power lines needed to support the additional wind turbines to be built in Highland, Rockingham, Bath and Augusta Counties. But, wait, other counties have issued stern regulations to prevent these. And, there are so many more issues.
I guess I’m about to bow out of this forum for a while as I believe some of the writers herein, actually, do have the solution. I’ll await an update on those who stated that they will build in their own backyard. Go for it………it doesn’t have to be 400′ tall, or 1000′ feet from your residence, you won’t need zoning approval, you can stay at your existing residence w/o relocation, you can forget what your neighbors think as you are going ‘green’, you can receive your own tax credit, rather than create a tax burden for all residences and…. you’ll be proving your point. And if it that catches on, there is no further need for this forum.
In the spirit of full disclosure, I’m Tal McBride; and my father and I are the developers of the Wind Farm in Highland County. Our company is Highland New Wind Development, LLC.
In case you haven’t read each of the posts carefully, and thoroughly, I’d like to ask you to please read JW’s post at 10:15PM on January 23rd.
JW posted that “Green Really Means Money = Rick Webb”.
Think about that fact for a second…..Rick Webb posted that ‘information’, under a pen name, hiding his true identity. He wrote his post as though it was someone else commenting after hearing/seeing his ‘presentation’(well sort of, except for his arm blocking the projector much of the time).
With that relevant fact in mind, please go back and re-read what Rick Webb wrote.
What do you think of Rick Webb now?
I think of Rick Webb now what I thought of him that night, and that was that he was a very articulate, concerned citizen wishing to speak the truth. Now I know that a string of faceless words on a computer screen will not get you to change your mind, but I can assure you that I am not Rick Webb. I know he wouldn’t stoop to writing on a blogger’s spot when he maintains his own website.
Look, I wrote what I wrote in a moment of frustration with this whole process and to let people realize that there are two sides of this story. It’s not a black and white issue for sure, not “us” vs “them” on either side. I realize this isn’t the place or time to continue arguing back and forth. It’s time to stop the bickering, and find solutions which I believe people are trying to do, but I’ll stand by my decision at this time that Highland County is not the right place for this project. I speak for me and no one else. I just hope we can all as rationalizing, caring human beings accept each other’s views and weigh the pros vs. the cons. It’s still a shame that both sides of this argument are trying to look out for future generations – one side believing that wind turbines will lessen dependency on fossil fuels for a cleaner future, and one side that wants the future generation to be able to take a step back in time to a rural place (that’s not a national or state park) with no signs of huge man-made structures like industrial wind turbine facilities, Wal-Marts, fast food restaurants, etc. to see how truly beautiful and naturally scenic a place can be away from urban areas. Hopefully, we’ll be able to find common ground soon. My opinion has been made, and I’m leaving it at that.
“The noises, which sound like beating a sledgehammer against a steel plate…..are they coming from a worker trying to develop a steel statue, or is it from the continual change in temperature causing expansion/reduction of the steel within the towers themselvesl”
Blackhawk,
Have you EVER been to a wind farm?
I’ve been on several myself, the cows in the pasture mooing was louder than the turbines. By far!
There is no hammering, no jarring noises. If you listen very very carefully you can pick out the “whoosh” of the blades as they spin 130+ feet over your head. You can hear the yaw drive motors kick on, but riding in an elevator is typically louder than the small whirring noise they emit.
The latest site I visited was in Colorado, about 60 miles to the east of Greeley near the Pawnee Buttes. Sitting in the middle of 272 turbines on the site, with several within 200-400 yards, the only noise you heard other than the cows was the wind.
If you haven’t seen a windfarm in operation, go see one. There are several nearby to the valley.
One other thing to bear in mind… A wind turbine site can be dismantled quite easily. I can’t speak for the requirements on this project, but it’s pretty much an industry standard to post a “deconstruction bond” for the project. This ensures that at the end of a projects useful lifespan the turbines can be removed, and the site rehabilitated if necessary.
Typically it takes about 10 days to completely remove a turbine and it’s foundation from a site. Even a turbine that is at the end of it’s “useful life” still retains a pretty high salvage value, there is a lot of scrap metal in it if nothing else of value.
Try removing a coal plant or a nuclear power plant.
and on another note…
Mr. Webb sidestepped the question on where you would actually see the project from. This is my best guess on where you might be able to see it from.
Personally after seeing the site map for this projects turbines, I truly believe that you won’t be able to see this project from very many locations. I tend to spend a good bit of time in Highland county, and know the terrain fairly well. I can say that you won’t see these turbines from the following towns for certain:
Monterrey
McDowell
Hightown (and yes, you won’t see it from Hightown, or the Bluegrass Valley, even though it’s only a few miles away)
Bluegrass
Doe Hill
You might be able to see it from Rt 250 as you descend into Hightown coming west from Monterrey. But you’ll be seeing it from a great distance, and the turbines probably won’t be distinct. I think this will be the farthest point to the east in the county that you MIGHT stand a chance of seeing them.
You certainly will be able to see them after you crest the ridge on Rt. 250 going west out of Hightown.
You can see them from the northern portions of Rt. 600 just south of 250, but probably for not more than 4 miles south of 250 (if that).
You can certainly see them from Rt. 605 where it intersects with 250, and from the top of Ellerber Knob. But no where else on 605, it’s too far in a bottom.
There are probably a few small points towards Laurel Fork and Hardscrabble that you might be able to catch a glimpse of them as well. But if I recall my ridges right, you probably won’t.
None of the towns in WV will be able to see them. You also won’t be able to see them from anywhere on 250 or 28 in WV.
Oh.. and you won’t be able to see it from anywhere in Bath county, or anywhere along Rt. 220 either.
This is a picture I took of the Mt. Storm project form the top of Bald Knob above Whitegrass XC ski area.
The turbines are only 5 miles away.. and at least 8 turbines are in the picture.. This is exactly what you would see if you were standing there.
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/16667-O-1.jpg
Paloma, you make a very interesting comment about the 39 MW of wind powering .06% of Virginia. The population in Highland County is 2,546, as of the 2000 Census. Be really generous and assume that to be the number of total households.
Refer back to JW’s calculations from the morning of January 24th at 9:55, the rough calculation is that is enough power for 4,700 homes. So that 39MW is enough to power ALL OF HIGHLAND COUNTY, and then some. Granted, Highland County has not voiced any inclination to buy the power- but why not? Nothing is stopping the local electric co-op from requesting proposals for wind power. Even if some other utility is the actual Purchaser of this power, this windfarm will be more than enough to offset the electricy used by County residents. The electrons don’t specify where they are going once they are generated.
I have stood along side turbines operating in Germany in the mid-1990′s. I have stood by operating turbines built in PA in the early 00′s. I have stood among large operating wind farms in CO. I have never heard a noise louder than the hum of my fridge.
I have read turbine manufacturer’s noise certifications for GE 1.5′s, Vestas’ V82′s, and (preliminary reports) for Clipper C93 and C96, which had not fully entered production yet. I have done preliminary noise studies for wind farms, and reviewed final studies that were conducted by sound engineers. You’d better believe that manufacturer’s warranty against excessive noise.
No turbine makes “clanging” noises while it is operating- unless maybe someone is standing inside the tower, hitting it with a metal object. Maybe the poster of that comment was confused, and thinking of the vintage, western water-pumping wind mill.
Paloma,
Thanks for bringing up this:
“Residential consumption for VA in 2004 = 617,384 billion Btu
The residential energy consumption is the combined amount from coal, wood, kerosene, geothermal, etc.
What percentage of Virginia’s residential consumption in 2004 would the proposed development offset? ”
First and foremost, Virginia has no geothermal electrical generations plants. And power generated from nuclear fission falls under this BTU figure as well.
It’s late, and I need some sleep, so I’ll keep this brief.
Lets assume that this 617,384 billion BTU’s are used by VA. Now BTU’s are a measure of heat, not electricity. So you can’t just convert BTU’s to MW-hrs and assume they are equal.
Typically when BTU figures are given for power purposes this means the amount of heat produced during power generation, aka we burned coal, oil, natural gas, or split atoms to make this much heat (BTU’s). This makes it relatively easy to compare fuel usages across different regions, however it doesn’t translate directly into electric power production.
So this heat that is generated is then converted into electrical power via a steam turbine. Because of friction and the laws of thermodynamics it’s not a complete conversion, you have losses, and a fair amount of them. The best thermal efficiency for a modern Rankine Cycle Steam plant is about 65% or so. Older plants can be as low as 35% efficient.
Note: this thermal efficiency is different than capacity factors. Capacity factors only tell you how much of the time a plant is up and running. ie. and 80% capacity factor means on average the plant is capable of producing full power 80% of the year. Thermal efficiency tells you how much actual work you get out of a given amount of heat.
Let’s just make it easy and say that all the power plants in VA that run on coal/nuclear are 65% efficient. This means 35% of the heat generated, the BTU’s “used” are lost.
0.65 x 617,384 BTU = 401,299.6 billion BTU’s got converted to electrical power.
Now you all don’t live within a few miles of a power plant? Of course not… Well the farther you transmit electricity the more of it you lose, it’s called line loss. On average, you can assume that 10% of the elctrical power generated is lost to line loss. so we’ll deduct another 10%. It varies with distance, but this is a represenative average.
401,299.6 x 0.90 = 361,169.6 billion BTU’s actually reaching homes for the year.
So in the end you end up with:
361,169,600,000,000 BTU’s = 105,848,400 MW-hrs of electricity.
So 39 MW of wind @ 35% capacity factor = 119,574 MW-hrs
let’s deduct a 10% line loss to make it all fair, and we are left with: 107,616 MW-hrs reaching residences.
107,616/ 105,848,400 = 0.0010
So it’s equivalent to roughly 0.1% of Virginia’s entire power usage, at a best case thermal efficiency.
There are two stories in the DNR today about this topic.
Looks like some are really starting to do ‘name calling’ within this whole blog. I’m not sure how that is defined, especially if some state their names and responses are to those parties but, its probably time for this blog to stop entirely.
And, no, I haven’t been to a wind farm……..I’ve been to many for days at a time. Yes, turbines towers do create loud noises due to steel expansion contraction, maybe even “clanging”….someone coined that term. Yes, Highland Co. residents and officials did inquire about purchasing power produced from this wind farm. And, there are other issues I could clarify but, does it matter……everybody needs to understand a decision has been made. I, or anyone else has no further influence on this particular outcome, I don’t believe
However, everyone on this blog needs to focus on how best to change the controversial 150′ cell tower being proposed east Rockingham into a stealth tower which if the height were only increased 75′, would allow it to cradle the turbine rotor. And, it only takes roughly a 100′ X100′ square rather than 100′s of acres. And, as others have stated, in can be self-serving for east Rockinghams residents and tourists at the resort area. There are lots of pro-wind comments herein which would weigh heavily in favor of such a project should be contacting the Rockingham Supervisors and Planning Commission members now. I mean, it is that simple if it is in the best interest of the public; a change in zoning or a variance should be issued. Looks like a another possible win-win situation for Virginia wind. These wind developers should jump at this chance.
JW, thanks for steering me in the right direction.
I have some follow up questions/comments.
Your .1% of Virginia’s residential energy consumption estimate looks much more accurate than mine. I just wanted to point out that this was total residential consumption and NOT Virginia’s total energy consumption. It didn’t include commercial/industrial. After reading your comments, I think using this total misses the mark. It included energy consumed not just for generating electricity. (Maybe that’s why there is a value for geothermal when, as you pointed out, there is no geothermal power plant. And yes, this did include nuclear power.) I’m guessing that it gets messy to estimate the thermal efficiency of so many different types of fuel and ways of utilizing it.
Maybe a better way to get a sense of what this means is to look at another estimate from the same source.
Energy Information Administration: Official Statistics from the US Government at http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/state/state_energy_profiles.cfm?sid=VA
Virginia’s 2007 consumption of coal for electricty generation for all sectors (electric power, commercial, industrial) = 1,337 thousand tons
Using your estimate for the coal offsets of this project from earlier (not taking into account the 10% loss due to transmission), I’d like to look at what percentage of Virginia’s coal consumption this comprises. Once again, I’m taking a stab. Let me know if I’m wrong.
48,854.52 tons of coal potentially offset annually from 39 MW project / 1,337,000,000 tons of coal consumed annually in Virginia for electricity generation = .0037%
I’ll wait to see if this is correct, but it seems like an awfully small amount even if it is significantly underestimated.
By the way, I noticed that your estimates for MW-hrs produced annually for the Highland County project was pretty close to the one mentioned in the DNR article another blogger posted. The estimate was 115,000 MW-hrs. I’m not sure the 10% transmission loss is included in the DNR article estimate, but you were awfully close. Any idea why the estimate of houses is higher? I’m sure it depends on what you assume an avg house consumes. Still, 12,750 homes is more than 2x what you posted here. I’m guessing you were overestimating consumption to give a safe estimate of the number of homes supplied.
One quick correction…please disregard my comment about 10% transmission loss for the estimate of offsets of tons of coal burned. This would just matter for the number of homes serviced.
Paloma,
I’ve been doing some digging on the efficincies of the VA power plants, and all of them that are in operation are running between 33-35% efficient. So the numbers I gave early could be adjusted up to 0.2%, and double the coal tonnage offset, at a minimum of residential needs.
65% is usually only achieved with a combined cycle plant. Dominion doesn’t have any such plants.
One thing to consider.. Dominion has installed and operated lots of small power plants. By small, I mean under 150 MW of production. For instance the plant in Hurt, Virginia, is only 80 MW. Dominion runs a lot of the these smaller plants as baseload plants. So even thought they are small, they play in important part in Dominion’s power production needs. No reason a 39 MW wind project wouldn’t be an asset if a 80 MW plant was recently built from scratch for the system.
I’ll re-run my numbers at 33% and evaluate your information from your post last night sometime this weekend.
Regarding my estimate of houses supplied.. I just went with the numbers used from the UCS’s numbers. They estimated 25 MW used per household per year. Personally, I think that is high as hell. I’m kind of miserly for my power, and my house tends to use less than 20 kWh per day (sometimes as low as 7 kWh during the summer), which means I use 7.3 Mw-hrs per year on the high side.
I think a average household would use somewhere between 1000-1400 kWh’s per month. So 12 to 16.8 MW-hours per year. Like I said, the 25 MW-hour figure was what I had the other night, and I used it.
JW
Are 80-150MW plants you are referencing gas, peaking plants? Aren’t these used on demand to supplement periods of high energy need? Would a wind development offer the same convenience? I’m assuming you would need this most during the hot summer months. How reliable is wind then?
I would hesitate to bump this up to .2% since it includes so many types of fuel sources. I’m not sure if wood includes an estimate of home use. What is the thermal efficiency of a wood insert, for example? To me, it could get pretty complicated especially without knowing more of what is included.
It seems like the coal estimate would be more accurate.
“Are 80-150MW plants you are referencing gas, peaking plants?”
No, they run a few smaller plants, including several older non-gas fired units.
Here is a list of all of Dominions plants, event he ones not in VA.
http://www.dom.com/about/stations/index.jsp
Good luck digging the details of the 10-K form out of here:
http://ccbn.10kwizard.com/xml/download.php?format=PDF&ipage=5244762
Bremo Power Station for instance is only a 250,000 kW unit. Bear in mind that most of these small plants are only equipped with Electrostatic Precipitators as emmission controls devices. What this means is they are much dirtier than newer and larger plants which have to adhere to much tighter emissions standards.
I can guarantee you that the amount of firewood used for home heating is infinitesimal compared to the amount of coal used for power generation.
Allright start with coal plants.. they can be operated as base load or on a peaking demand basis. The typical requirements these days are that the dispatch (people who say hey I need more power) are required to first go to the cleanest available source, and then cascade down from there till projected demand is covered. And even base load plants can be modulated, i.e. they don’t all run at full power or nothing. What is more the case is there is an optimal range for them to run in, and unless they can run in that 20-30% band they don’t run at all.
Typically a coal plant (or most other power plants) have multiple boilers, they can run 1 thru X of them to produce up to the “nameplate” capacity of the facility. Just because the nameplate says 300 Mw, doesn’t mean it has to run at that, usaully it can run a combination of boiler units to achieve different mixes of power as forecasted demand changes.
So dispatch looks at the historical figures, the weather forecast, the power consumption trends and says “OK we need XXXX Mw of genereation for tomorrow, and we think the next day is going to be XX% better/worse”. So based on this forecast they will adjust the baseload calls, and then add in peaking capacity calls to cover expected load. They do this 24 hours in advance, so the peaking plants can come online and match demand loads. One thing to keep in mind… if projected demand is XXXX then they always try and run XXXX +15% or so onto the grid to avoid brownouts. That extra 15% is to cover errors in projected loads, and it all gets dumped in essentially giant toasters called load banks when it is not used.
oh.. and these power calls include hour by hour generation requirements, so all powerplants aren’t running at full power all the time. It’s tailored to meet expected loads by hour.
So what does all this have to do with Wind?
Well before a project moves forward, you put up some met towers to collect data on the site. This data is used to map out the wind patterns for a site over 1-2 years. From this data an analyst will make a wind rose, basically it’s a pretty over head view of the site and it visually shows the data representing wind speeds and directions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_rose
From this you can estimate how to optimize the turbine arrays to maximize power production on a site. After this all the turbine locations are modelled and optimal placement is determined. It’s at this time that all setbacks to sensitive wildlife issues (nests, breeding grounds, etc) and houses, roads, or other items (some projects have to be sited around old missile silos in Colorado).
After the final siting arrangements are worked out, the projected power generation is estimated.
After construction and startup you can begin to reconcile actual generation figures and projections. So over time you can develop a really good model of the wind farms power producing capacity. You can correspond weather, time of year, etc and begin to make accurate projections of capacity for the following day, etc. So the wind farm will call into the power company and say “we think we’ll generate X (usually a minimum) tomorrow, and XX the day after.”
Now since this is a renewable source, it gets priority on the grid, and the power purchase agreement between the wind farm and the utility stipulates that. So the wind farms projected power is used first, and “base load” and peaking plants are given calls to make up the difference.
So yes, wind is variable, but over time we can predict production, and use that to alter the baseloads and peaking plants to cover requirements. The old argument of “We can’t build wind turbines because we still need backup power plants” is crap. The backup power already exists, we just displace it while we generate.
Oh and peak production for wind is usually in times of greatest thermal energy changes. So winter and summer are the peak seasons for wind, more sun, larger temperature differentials, more fronts, etc. = more wind.
We always did turbine repairs and maintenance on the shoulder seasons, aka spring and fall.
I’m a prospective buyer of wind power from the Highland Wind Farm. I have never been to Highland County; it is several hours away from where I live. In fact, I had never heard of Highland County until this controversy. If the wind farm IS built, I will most certainly seek it out as a tourism attraction, along with whatever else you have to see in the one traffic light town. I’m not terribly rustic and I don’t camp, rather, I’d be dropping hundreds of dollars in the town, assuming you have B&Bs or a motel.
I’m quite serious about this. When I drive to Pittsburgh, I always stop at the Somerset rest area to watch the wind turbines there, which is where I buy my home electricity from (at least the renewable energy certificates). I’m in a position to buy a whole lot more RECs from Highland County for my corporate position. And I do agree with Bill McKibben, that its time for a new perspective and environmental aesthetic regarding wind.