Obama takes City, County, State

Finnegan, I wouldn’t read too much into the R vs. D numbers. It’s likely GOP turnout was depressed due to McCain’s coronation as Republican frontrunner.

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finnegan says:

February 12, 2008 at 8:58 pm

Still, the point is that swing voters are currently gravitating toward Obama.

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Draegn88 says:

February 12, 2008 at 9:00 pm

Lowell, if I can read any candidate’s list of hollow promises anytime I wish. I want to know what the Obama supporters honestly and realistically expect from him.

Do they support the following from his website:?

Expand Hate Crimes Statutes
Obama will strengthen federal hate crimes legislation and reinvigorate enforcement at the Department of Justice’s Criminal Section.

IE Orwellian thought crimes, for, no member of law enforcement or the judicary is telepathic. Therefore no member of law enforcement or the judicary can know what a person is thinking or feeling.

Of course “Hate Crimes” are just a code word for Anti-white, for, when has a black or hispanic ever been charged with a hate crime?

What of Iraq? Is Obama going to tell israel to (insert colourful metaphor) and fight it’s own wars rather than using US troops to do it’s dirty work?

At least he’s not a total autocrat like Hellary who wants to garnish your wages for her communist health care plan.

In all honestly I did not care for any of the candidates and I am sick of having to choose between the lesser of many evils.

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finnegan says:

February 12, 2008 at 9:02 pm

…and that’s my cue to sign off the Internet for the evening.

G’night, folks. Have fun going back and forth with the racist dude.

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Lowell Fulk says:

February 12, 2008 at 9:15 pm

Draegn88,

Please explain “Is Obama going to tell israel to (insert colourful metaphor) and fight it’s own wars rather than using US troops to do it’s dirty work?”

I don’t mean to be dense, but to me it doesn’t make sense.

And I understand that you don’t like any of the candidates. Lacking a choice you are comfortable with, you can elect to not participate, or you can write in a choice.

Tell me though, other than your dislike of hate crime legislation, what troubles you so about Obama? I am honestly interested to read your thoughts.

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Lowell Fulk says:

February 12, 2008 at 9:17 pm

Brent,

Thank you again so very much for providing this forum.

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Marcus says:

February 12, 2008 at 9:45 pm

I hate to turn this discussion to race, but I wanted to respond to one of Draegn88 comment. Out of genuine curiosity I googled: “african american charged with hate crime”

Half of the stories referred to a Caucasian crime, half to African American crime and one to an anti-homosexual incident.

The second link caught my attention regarding eight African-American females who were charged of a hate crime when attacked three Caucasian females. The article was written by an African American and they stated in anger of the parents protest of the verdict:
“If the situation were reversed and White girls had assaulted African American girls on Halloween night, all hell might have broken loose. African Americans, including myself must accept the fact that if our children commit an obvious hate crime, they must do the hate time, no matter the ethnicity, religion, sexual preference, or gender of the victim. We cannot afford to compromise, or prejudice ourselves when it comes to crimes of bigotry and hate. ”

I thought you would appreciate the story and the comment.

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Draegn88 says:

February 12, 2008 at 9:54 pm

Lowell,

Bush went into Afganistan to capture bin Laden and remove the Taliban who were supporting him. During this campaign, what logical, military tactical reason caused him to just go 1500 miles to the west? Saddam was isolated and contained, there was no justified reason to engage him, other than that of pro-israeli zionist provocateurs. The same provocateurs who are pushing for war with Iran.

Every adventure in the Middle east has been to the benefit of israel and these adventures have done nothing but garnish us hate in return. Why should we cut our throats for israel’s benefit? Israel has nuclear weapons it can take care of itself.

You wrote this on another page:

“Perhaps Dave, better questions to ask are:
How many of the individuals now in the race for President of the United States have inspired this much enthusiasm and confidence?
Which of the other current candidates have shown such ability to inspire and give hope?
Who among the other candidates still in this contest have shown such ability for leadership and a uniting vision?”

I do not think he can deliver all this hope that is promised. He is preferrable over Hellary. The only thing that he really has going for him is his “lack of experience”. He’s the new kid on the block, however, what will happen when he is called to task on the same old tired issues?

Hate crimes: Why is hanging a noose a hate crime? Two kids are charged with it for hanging one off the back of their truck. Yet 6 blacks can beat 1 white until unconscious and get off with a slap on the wrist. 9 blacks can assault 1 white on a bus, another slap on the wrist. 4 blacks can carjack, rape, torture, mutilate and murder both Channon Christain and Christopher Newsom and not be charged with hate crimes. If all of that is not hate, then what it? Is Obama going to stop this double standard? Many others and I are tired of extemed institutions like Columbia University saying that only whites can be racist.

I know that’s probably not what you wanted to hear, but that is the issue that has pissed me off for the longest period of time.

Marcus I was writting this as you wrote your post. Caucasian is not an accurate term to use. If you break caucasian down into non-hispanic and hispanic you will see a world of difference. Yes there are a few bad apples in any group, however, if you look into the crime statistics you will see that black and hispanic crime greatly outnumber white crime.

When you report the story, you imply that the parents of the black girls were not happy with their daughters being charged with a hate crime. Why is that? Is it because the current standard is that only white people can be racist because only white people come from a position of privledge?

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Lowell Fulk says:

February 13, 2008 at 12:41 am

“I know that’s probably not what you wanted to hear, but that is the issue that has pissed me off for the longest period of time.”

No Draegn88,

That is just what I wanted to hear. I appreciate more than you know your willingness to share a discussion with me regarding the issues you hold important.

Please accept my apology for not immediatly engaging the discussion in return. I was faced this evening in dealing with home based issues which precluded me from attending to our conversation. Believe me, I would have much preferred exchanging ideas with you to that series of events which occupied my evening.
Please also know that I value your opinion and your willingness to share your concerns and ideas.
I will write back tomorrow evening when life has settled a bit here.

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Tim says:

February 13, 2008 at 3:45 am

Against my better judgment (which has been know to be lacking) I will respond to this thread and Dreagn88 specifically…

A noose is not a socially accepted form of speech because it has been used in the past as a violent threat to minorities who are seen as “uppity.” Intelligent points can easily be made without that specific imagery. Unintelligent points however…

Most people I know are against the war in Iraq, if you are as well, you don’t need any anti-Semitic rhetoric to be part of the club. Just leave the hate out and you too can be part of the peace movement.

I’ve already been through 8 years of presidential “hell,” in my opinion. I didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton but I do think that most of the haters don’t know why they hate her, they just have stuck radio dials. That “Hellery” thing is only clever on those aforementioned radio stations.

I am very glad that Obama swept the Potomac primaries, a new face/voice/attitude can (hopefully) make a very big difference.

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Seth says:

February 13, 2008 at 10:01 am

just did some looking and found out that texas is an open primary. billary (not much more clever than hellary, i realize) better get ready for round two of every republican with nothing to gain by voting in their own primary making her look like a joke. i guess it comes down to the fact that you can’t be hated by such a large portion of the electorate and expect to be a viable candidate (unless you’re G.w., it seemed to work out pretty well for him).
short of some serious monkeyshines with those super delegates, i’d say she’s done.

yes we can mess with texas!!

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finnegan says:

February 13, 2008 at 10:10 am

Seth, having lived in the “Don’t Mess With Me” state, I can assure you that even though it’s an open primary, Obama’s biggest hurdle will be the large southwestern Latino population there, which tends to favor Clinton. The weird thing about TX is that about half of the state considers itself Southern (East Texas is full of typical black and white Southerners) while the other half considers itself part of the Southwest — a very Hispanic area Clinton has done very well in (she took CA, NV, NM, AZ, etc).

If Obama wins the nomination, he’s going to need a Latino runing mate to beat McCain in the Southwest. Enter Richardson.

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Marcus says:

February 13, 2008 at 12:19 pm

Draegn88 I’ll let the discussion die off because it too open a topic and we’ll go in circles. I will say though that the reasons for higher crime rate among Hispanic and African American populations are well disputed and inconclusive. I’ll leave it at that.

Also for the parents of the girls. Is there any parent of a child who wouldn’t argue against a reduced sentence in any case involving their child? My own parents would probably be willing to show up and dispute a speeding ticket if I asked them to. They would certainly show up at a higher criminal offense as a character witness.

Anyway, my point was not about the parents, but the African American writer who agrees with your last point. Treat everyone in a racial driven criminal act equally. That is what happened in this particular case. I thought you would/could celebrate that fact?

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Seth says:

February 13, 2008 at 12:32 pm

wait, i’m confused. is obama more or less likely to commit crimes while in office than the clintons?

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kestrel9000 says:

February 13, 2008 at 1:50 pm

I really find it difficult taking seriously the take of someone with a screen name like “Draegn88″ on what is racism or what is not.
That said, the argument goes like this:
“Racism” has been defined as the use of institutional power to maintain the political, social and economic dominance of a dominant “racial” group.
Therefore, by this definition, in America only whites can be “racist.”
“Prejudice” is everywhere. “Racism” is exclusively, according to that definition, exclusively the province of the Caucasian.
That is how the argument goes. I didn’t invent it, I merely present it.
As for me?
I say the only race is the human race.

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JGFitzgerald says:

February 13, 2008 at 1:55 pm

Kestrel,

Are you referring to the use of 88 to mean the eighth letter of the alphabet, HH, signifying Heil Hitler? That would be an unfair accusation unless the screen name is coupled with anti-Jewish or white supremacist statements. Maybe the guy’s favorite car is an Olds.

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finnegan says:

February 13, 2008 at 3:32 pm

Or he might be into both: Hitler and Oldsmobiles. I coulda sworn I saw a Klansman driving one just the other day.

Anyway, I just saw this from the National Journal, and think it’s germane:

…Clinton won the Shenandoah Valley area, the traditional GOP base and the southwestern portion of the state, where former Gov. Mark Warner (D) made inroads in his 1991 election victory but voters tend to favor Republicans…

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JGFitzgerald says:

February 13, 2008 at 3:54 pm

Er, uh … according to the State Board of Elections links above, Clinton carried only the 9th Congressional District (by a 2-1 margin) which does include SW Va. The 6th CD, which includes the Valley, was Obama’s smallest win, 10 points, among the other CDs. But 10 points is still a win.

For the record, I argue with the Nasty Journal, not with our host.

I was born in Richlands, in Tazewell County, so I think I can say with as much love as criticism that SW Va. is beautiful, poor, inviting, welcoming, half-wild, half-disabled, coal-stained, creek-washed and as close to Arkansas as you can get, geographically and every other way that matters, in Virginia. I suppose, in fairness, I could read all of the NJ post before reacting badly, but until they find out where the Valley is, I’m going to assume that whatever point they were trying to make about my state, including using the 9th CD to prove anything, is wrong.

So there.

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finnegan says:

February 13, 2008 at 4:08 pm

Good to know. Looking at SBE, I understood that Obama won in the 6th, but I second-guessed it. I figured either I had read the results wrong, or SBE had made an error on their website (wouldn’t be the first time).

It’s not surprising that the NJ got it wrong.

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ShaunFlaherty says:

February 14, 2008 at 2:29 am

Kestrel replied:

“Racism” has been defined as the use of institutional power to maintain the political, social and economic dominance of a dominant “racial” group.
Therefore, by this definition, in America only whites can be “racist.”
“Prejudice” is everywhere. “Racism” is exclusively, according to that definition, exclusively the province of the Caucasian.
That is how the argument goes. I didn’t invent it, I merely present it.

This is my problem with that argument. How does the mere race of a person equal institutional power? It’s pretty easy to argue that not all whites have the ability to possess or bestow on others this institutional power as defined above. The only way to make this definition true would be to say that because most powerful people are white, then all whites are powerful, and that does not make logical sense. This definition of racism is one that cultural marxist deconstructionists have been using. This is a type of teaching that Hillary believes in, and it is exactly why many people have questions about Obama. White people don’t want to be thought of as automatically evil. Some of them don’t want to be discriminated against because standards are lowered in the name of “diversity.”

But me? I don’t mind higher standards. It just makes me better than those I’m competing against.

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Draegn88 says:

February 14, 2008 at 5:29 pm

I had a previous post; the mods did not care for it apparently.

To summarize, I agree with Shaun. Though I will add that there comes a time when a person no longer has the patience to deal with being held to higher standards.

Tim writes:

“A noose is not a socially accepted form of speech because it has been used in the past as a violent threat to minorities who are seen as “uppity.” Intelligent points can easily be made without that specific imagery. Unintelligent points however…”

We do have freedom of speech in America. Regardless if you like it or not. When certain forms of speech and thought are outlawed, how long will it be before art, music, etc…. are banned as well?

Kestrel has issues with the 88 in my screenname. I find that odd considering that Kestrel ends his/her name with 9000. Is there some significance to the number 9000?

And Finnegan refers to me as the “racist dude”. How interesting when one takes note of the red highlights in the Write a comment section.

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Gxeremio says:

February 14, 2008 at 5:51 pm

A few selections of comments from Draegn88 on other sites:

On VNN Forum (a haven for white supremacists): “Regardless if one likes this bill or not, it’s passing would be a great tool for the rounding up of illegal aliens and mexcrement.”

In response to a comment on the same forum that “Dead jews are always good news… I have heard that the jew can regenerate.”: “Especially after being cremated and having their asses spread to all corners of the Earth. No wonder with only a mere 14 million they’re in every country of the world.”

On the ValleyArts blog: “American culture has been murdered by the multiculturism and diversity that is pumped daily into the veins by the media.”

And you still haven’t clarified whether the 88 on your moniker is a Heil Hitler reference or not. So it seems finnegan has every reason to think you’re a “racist dude” until you present some evidence to the contrary.

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finnegan says:

February 14, 2008 at 6:05 pm

First of all, if you look at the comments I’ve made in the past on matters of free speech, you’ll see that:

when it comes to the issues of racism and the First Amendment, I have to agree with the ACLU when they supported the KKK’s right to march in Cleveland, and with Noam Chomsky when he defended French author Robert Faurisson’s right to deny the Holocaust. I believe you can’t limit the freedom of speech to certain ideologies.

Secondly, it ain’t name calling if it’s true. I didn’t call you an idiot or some expletive. I called you what you are. A racist.

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Draegn88 says:

February 14, 2008 at 6:40 pm

Gxeremio, Finnegan,

Here’s a real racist for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamau_Kambon

Agree or disagree? Regardless you cannot blame a person for being just a little annoyed when someone calls for their extermination.

Gxer, since you read over VNNforum, a forum that allows anyone to participate. Please join in the discussions. There is no need to limit yourself. You are welcome to join.

As for the number 88, I will assure you that it is not some secret moniker. It represents a personal issue, that I will not discuss on a public forum. One of the other ladies might understand it. I doubt that you will.

Finn, I can care less what you call me. You know “sticks and stones”. I do not think you’re an “anti” like the ARA. What exactly are you?

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finnegan says:

February 14, 2008 at 6:57 pm

Never heard of him before, but assuming that Wiki is accurate, then yes, I’d say Kambon’s a racist. What’s that got to do with the price of tea? Were we talking about him?

I’ll tell you what I’m not. I’m not a Republican, a Democrat, a communist, an anarchist, a Libertarian, a socialist, an authoritarian, a nationalist, nor a theocrat. Why do you feel the need to categorize everyone? Not everyone fits into neat little boxes. In fact, most people don’t, but they don’t even realize it themselves.

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Draegn88 says:

February 14, 2008 at 7:37 pm

True, not everyone fits into a single box. People tend to fall into multiple boxes that overlap one another. Everyone categorizes everyone else. It is how people determine who they wish to speak to, associate with, etc… Mostly this is based on your appearance.

I brought up Kambon to illustrate what a racist is. The ARA will call me a racist, fascist, nazi etc… for no other reason than my desire to have our laws enforced. Laws which say illegal aliens are fined and deported with possible prison time for repeat offenders. Yet Kambon is calling for the extermination of all white people. Depending on souce 8-23 percent of the world’s population. There is a world of difference between the two.

I think it would be fair to say that there are others here who have been called a racist. For no other reason than that people do not think. One might say, “I think Al Sharpton is a scumbag” and someone else will say, “He’s black, you’re a racist because you think he’s a scumbag.” Never asking why. Yet change the statement to “I think David Duke is a scumbag” and everyone will agree with you. Why is that?

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JGFitzgerald says:

February 14, 2008 at 7:59 pm

“Why is that?”

Uh? Because he is???

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Draegn88 says:

February 15, 2008 at 1:59 am

Thanks Joe, you proved my point.

No matter which black or hispanic you may dislike, there will always be someone to defend them. However, criticize their white counterpart and you’ll find agreement.

This is due to the over zealousness of political correctness run amok. There are people who would rather watch their daughter being gang raped, than to be called a racist. The rape of their daughter garners them sympathy. Being called a racist earns you instant contempt.

But that’s the typical “anti” way of doing things, isn’t Joe? Try to find someone, and protest so that they’re “exposed”. IE driven out of the community. Due to the anti targetting their place of employment with harassment until the person is asked to leave. Call a person a racist, get them fired from the job.

Further more, if you have to resort to calling someone a racist, you’ve already lost the arguement. People that accuse one of being a racist have nothing to stand on.

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Barnabas says:

February 15, 2008 at 8:42 am

So we should send hard working individuals back into the poverty stricken country we helped create? If you keep dumping your trash in your neighbors hard don’t be suprised when their kids want to play in your yard instead of their own. The U.S. and Mexican governemts have created a situation that forces many people here. Some very very small areas of mexico have a growing economy, the rest is in decline. If you don’t want them here then start supporting efforts to reverse the damage that has been done to their economy. Don’t complain when jobs go their and threaten to boycott companies that move production there. For many people, the USA is the box they live in. I am an inhabitant of earth and i think the best way to take care of here has nothing to do with green house gasses but everything to do with taking care of those around us.

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JGFitzgerald says:

February 15, 2008 at 10:48 am

HH,

I’ve proved nothing. There has never been a case in this country of any ethnic group figuratively or literally dominating or enslaving the white majority. Those who whine against attempts to even the playing field through affirmative action are often not fighting racism or pursuing justice. Frequently, they are indulging in self-pity. I hope it’s not politically incorrect to say so.

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Draegn88 says:

February 15, 2008 at 2:38 pm

Joe, are you so certain on your position? If:

” There has never been a case in this country of any ethnic group figuratively or literally dominating or enslaving the white majority”

is true, then explain to me why Kamau Kambon can call for the extermination of every white person in the world, you included, on cspan and with the exception of Hannity it is mentioned no where else. Yet if a white had said the same about blacks, I doubt that there is a single person on this forum who would say that it would not have been aired 24/7 on all the networks, that al sharpton would not be sponsoring marches calling for the person to be fired, that the naacp would not be protesting, that there would not be threats of rioting, etc etc etc…

Affirmative action, multiculturalism, and diversity are not means to “even the playing field”. Here’s an editorial from the DNR

http://www.dnronline.com/search_details.php?AID=14663&CHID=36&key=diversity&title=&author=&channelid=

Kindly note the last sentence, with empathise on “politically ingrained” Which politician set this up and why?

If you want something to be fair, judge people on their merits and achievements.

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Gxeremio says:

February 15, 2008 at 2:50 pm

Kamau was part of a forum when he made the comments, not the featured speaker, and others at the same forum immediately denounced his remarks. He is not a professor (he WAS an adjunct instructor in the past), not a policy maker, not anyone but an over-educated bookstore owner. What do you propose should be done to further indicate how reprehensible his remarks were, considering the same kinds of remarks are made about Mexicans, Jews, and African-Americans on the VNN site by people of similar social status to Kamau? Is Al Sharpton really banging down your door for the comments I referenced above, or are you just using this Kamau incident as a kind of excuse for your own reprehensible talk by saying that others do it too?

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JGFitzgerald says:

February 15, 2008 at 2:55 pm

I’d probably complain mightily about Kamau Kambon’s comments if I’d ever heard of him.

I’d probably complain mightily about the DNR editorial page and its frequent misrepresentations if I thought serious people took it to heart.

I’m betting that when Kambon does raise his army and begin his task, he’s probably going to want to get you before he does me, since I, with my political naivete and liberal mushiness, present less of a danger to him. When I hear him bragging on CSPAN, or Home Shopping Network, or wherever, that he’s eliminated Olds88, I’ll know it’s time for the rest of us to start watching out. Thanks for being my canary in the coal mine.

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Gxeremio says:

February 15, 2008 at 3:10 pm

By the way, you can watch Kamua Kambon’s remarks on this site – the comments under discussion here are at around 3 hours, 41 minutes into the forum. Immediately after he speaks, someone comes to the podium and says, “Ladies and Gentlemen, we don’t have time for racial fanaticism…”

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Draegn88 says:

February 15, 2008 at 3:13 pm

Jeremy, the point that you’re missing is that Kamau was not demonized by the media for his comments. However, a white person in the same position as Kamau would be.

Why can groups supported by the ARA such as Aztlan, Mecha, La Raza, Luhuc, Mexicans with borders, be allowed to call for the deportation of all whites back to Europe. (You included) Yet when the minutemen who are comprised of all races ask for our current laws to be enforced they are labeled as racist neo-nazis, etc…

the laws I am referring too.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=8&sec=1325

About VNNFORUM. You selectively read through almost 300 posts that I have made in order to pick out a select handful. Why didn’t you pick out on where I call for non-violence? Why didn’t you pick out one where I say that a certain person should not be executed for being raped? So what is your personal agenda?

As for the Kamau incident: he was not demonized therefore no one else regardless of race should be demonized for comments and or statements made.

Since you’re so familiar with VNN, would you mind pointing out to me those members that are “of similiar social status to Kamau?”

Finally with regards to the comments on VNN about hispanics, blacks and jews, the hispanics, blacks, and jews have their own forums which are the equivalent or worse than VNN. And you know that to be true.

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finnegan says:

February 15, 2008 at 3:21 pm

You guys might want to consider just letting this one go.

It’s beginning to get to the point where I actually miss going back and forth with Dave Briggman about climate change.

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Draegn88 says:

February 15, 2008 at 3:29 pm

Joe, here’s a video of Kamau Kambon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMOkDOXAovQ

As for who might go down first in the war that Kamau speaks about. I’d put my money on you Joe. In the war Kamau mentions your uniform is the color of your skin. That means you and I are on the same side. Yet I don’t see you as willing to defend yourself.

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