DREAM Act Passes House Vote

Brent Finnegan -- December 8th, 2010

The U.S. House of Representatives voted Wednesday to pass the DREAM Act, 216-198. However, the bill does not appear to have the support needed to pass the Senate. NPR reports:

In the Senate, however, Democrats are unlikely to muster the 60 votes needed to advance the bill past opposition from the GOP and a handful in their own party who view it as amnesty. A Senate vote is expected Thursday.

We reported in September that the legislation that could grant a path to permanent residency for many children of unauthorized immigrants was “dead for now.” Last month U.S. Senate majority leader Harry Reid said he would move to re-introduce the bill during the “lame duck session.”

DREAM Act march Harrisonburg. Photo by Patrick Lincoln

DREAMers gather at Blessed Sacrament Church, June 2010. Photo by Patrick Lincoln.

Since then, DREAM Act supporters in Harrisonburg have been organizing rallies, a turkey drive, and a hunger fast to pressure members of the Senate to pass the measure.

“I think this is the time. If it doesn’t happen in the lame duck session, who knows when it will happen,” adds [undocumented immigrant Isabel] Castillo.

She says supporters plan to focus much of their efforts in the coming days on the lame duck senators who will no longer be in office after January.

“Definitely, we’re going to be targeting them and letting them know, ‘Before you leave, do the right thing and vote yes for the Dream Act,'” adds Castillo. (WHSV)

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126 Responses to “DREAM Act Passes House Vote”

    • Jeremy Aldrich says:

      The “study” by FAIR is deeply flawed, overestimating costs and underestimating revenue benefits of the undocumented population. It also gets most of its projected costs from the US-born children of undocumented immigrants, who are in fact US citizens.

      Imagine the loss to local businesses and to the local sales and real estate tax base if thousands of undocumented people were suddenly ripped out of our community because of a misdemeanor offense.

      • Daniel says:

        Illegals do not shop at “local business”. They shop at Wal-Mart. When is the last time you’ve seen a family of Hispanics eating at the Chop House, Jack Browns, or Daves’? How about Jim’s Drive In in Dayton, next-door to Rocco/Cargil; or IGA in Bridgewater next-door to Perdue? Most of them don’t even use our local banks and cash their checks at the D&D Mini Mart (Cousre they have to buy something (beer) to get their check cashed).

        I stopped going to Wal-Mart years ago, but I can still remember the Hispanics in line digging out food stamps to pay for half of their groceries, and cash for the “non-approved” stuff. I’m sure it’s still happening today.

        I say good riddance to these folks. This DREAM Act stuff really gets under my skin and I’m far from any sort of radical.

        • BN says:

          Undocumented persons are not able to get food stamps.

          • Daniel says:

            You may be correct. That is, unless they’ve had a child after coming here, or if they have a stolen/fake ID. How many children, families, veterans and elderly are not getting the help they need because illegal aliens soaked up all benefits because they’ve come here and popped out a few babies or stolen ID’s?

          • Daniel, that’s an interesting accusation. Why do you think needy Americans aren’t getting the help they need? How would their situation be different if there weren’t any undocumented immigrants in the US?

          • Lowell Fulk says:

            Okay Daniel,

            You ask: “How many children, families, veterans and elderly are not getting the help they need because illegal aliens soaked up all benefits because they’ve come here and popped out a few babies or stolen ID’s?”

            I give up, how many? You do have such information I trust?

          • Daniel’s correct…if the illegal squeezes one out AFTER arrival they’re going to get food stamps and other public assistance.

          • Daniel says:

            You being an active public figure and all, I’m sure you’ve taken the time to chat with employees at the Harrisonburg/Rockingham Health Department, right? You’ve looked into the WIC program and talked directly with the people receiving these benefits and have gotten their full story. You’ve talked in depth with administrators about abuse and have asked what, if any, misuse of funds they see and how to better the programs they offer.

            Better yet, Lowell, just go sit in the Health Department parking lot and watch the door to see who enters to take advantage of these benefits.

            You’re right that I do not have a number or a percentage of who gets what. That’s an unobtainable number! No one really knows. The reason no one knows is because there is so much fraud in these programs and nothing gets done about it. Stolen ID’s, borrowed ID’s, fake ID’s, shared SSN’s of children, under-the-table wages…the list goes on. If you think these illegals do not have our system figured out, you’re blind as a bat.

          • Lowell Fulk says:

            “Better yet, Lowell, just go sit in the Health Department parking lot and watch the door to see who enters to take advantage of these benefits.”

            Can’t parking lot stalk Daniel, I have a job…

          • Lowell Fulk says:

            And so basically, Daniel, you cannot substantiate your claims, right?

          • Daniel says:

            1. Welfare: $11 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.

            2. Food assistance: $2.2 billion dollars a year are spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
            http ://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.…

            3. Social services: Add social services to welfare and food assistance and American taxpayers are spending $90 billion dollars a year are spent on illegal aliens.

            4. Medicaid: $2.5 billion dollars a year are spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

            5. Education: $12 billion dollars a year are spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

            6. Education: $17 billion dollars a year are spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
            http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604%20/01/ldt.01.html /01/ldt.01.html

            7. Lost wages: Americans lose $200 billion dollars a year in suppressed wages caused by illegal aliens.

            8. Crime: The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that’s two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US

            9. Sex crime: ‘The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ‘.

            10. Incarceration: $3 million dollars per day are spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

            11. Incarceration: 30% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

            12. Border crossing: During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 million illegal aliens that crossed our southern border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from terrorist countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the southern
            border. Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

            13. Deportation: The National Policy Institute, ‘estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.’

            14. Remittances: In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 billion in remittances back to their countries of origin.

            $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR

          • Lowell Fulk says:

            Daniel, did you bother to check out any of the links from the copy and paste you did above?

          • Daniel says:

            Want me to rewrite it so you can better understand it, Lowell? Or would you like for me to sum it up in one sentence? You get the point, I’m sure. If not, there is no hope left for you. It’s not like you even care anyway. You act as if you do, but you don’t. You’re Mr. Politically Correct, and it’s very PC not to offend the illegals.

            Here’s another copy/paste for you:
            Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

          • Lowell Fulk says:

            My goodness but aren’t we getting grumpy? Have a cookie.

            And I’ll ask again, did you bother to check out any of the links from your copy and paste?

      • Delataire says:

        For the sake of argument, lets say that there are 7 million illegal aliens doing somekind of work. Send them and their children back to where they came while billing their home country for the cost. Then there will be jobs for 7 million unemployed Americans, who will pay the various taxes and buy goods and services as you’ve mentioned.

        Why do you hate Americans so much Jeremy?

        • “Why do you hate Americans so much?” What a strange question for one American to ask another. That is, assuming you’re American.

          Those 7 million jobs you imagine (if unemployed Americans were even willing to do them) might be considerably less given that you’d also be removing 13 million (estimated) paying consumers of goods and services. Not to mention that industries which rely on intensive labor (often provided by undocumented workers using fake papers) might be inclined to move elsewhere if that labor is no longer available.

          Let’s fix the laws rather than overreacting to misdemeanor offenses by intentionally sinking our economy, ignoring our values, and moving towards a police state,

          • Delataire says:

            Yes let’s fix the laws, but not by rewarding those who have simply by being here, engaged in criminal behavior.

            The majority of citizens and legal immigrants want the illegal aliens punished in some way for having broken the law. Either a fine, deportation or both. Your support of these illegal aliens is at the very least anti-social. Why do you do it?

            Everytime there’s a report of an illegal alien roundup at whatever plant/factory, the very next day there’s a line of new applicants seeking work. Obviously there are citizens and legal immigrants who want to do that work, but the plants/factories prefer to hire the illegal aliens because they can get way with not paying as much or providing benefits. Please don’t blame citizens and legal immigrants because a factory owner wants to be greedy.

          • Jeremy,

            The illegals place more of a burden on our economy that they contribute to it…just the costs of educating the little illegals is a substantial drain.

          • Jeremy…construction, which relies on intensive labor ain’t going anywhere…

            And Jeremy, if all of these illegals get legal status, they’re going to command “legal wages” which will drive up all kinds of costs.

            The misdemeanor offense you keep talking about is the illegal penetration of this country’s borders…which represents both economic and security threats.

      • Jeremy,

        You acquired your “facts” regarding the Fair Study where?

        They’re ILLEGAL ALIENS, Jeremy…even the DREAM Act calls them ALIENS.

        • Jeremy Aldrich says:

          I read the study, which states that most of its costs come from the US-born children (aka US citizens, not “little illegals”) of undocumented immigrants: “In our cost estimates we also include the minor children of illegal aliens born in the United States. That adds another 3.4 million children to the 1.3 million children who are illegal aliens themselves.” For the most recent data available in Harrisonburg City Schools, for example, 67% of students in the ESL program were either US-born (mainland) or born in Puerto Rico, making them US citizens. And most of the rest were legal immigrants or refugees.

          In terms of industry moving elsewhere, I was thinking (in local terms) of the poultry industry, one of our area’s largest employers. But you’re right – the jobs in construction, food service, hospitality, etc. would need to be done by someone local. The problem is that there are open jobs in most of those fields NOW, and many Americans don’t seem to want them because of the hard work and relatively low pay.

  1. Delataire,
    Uh, no. If the 7 million go back that will reduce aggregate demand for goods here (sorry, Daniel, they do buy stuff at places besides Wal-Mart, and I regularly see them in banks and other places). Jobs will be losts because of that. Indeed, all the careful studies that have been done show that overall, they add to the economy.
    And, frankly Delataire, it is a stupid law. Do we want to punish all the adulterers because that is against the law in VA? Throw the bums in jail!

    • Actually, Professor Rosser, as the adulterers are primarily female who largely profit off of their adultery, if they have children, I think they ought to be buried up to their necks and stoned until their heads explode like pumpkins.

      • DebSF says:

        Are all these Virgin-ian female adulterers also lesbians who inseminate themselves in the dead of night with turkey basters and then do DNA matching from the donors toothbrush saliva to nail the dad for everything he’s got? Or do we have hordes of sexually unsatisfied married women in the valley throwing themselves at unsuspecting unmarried men in order to secretly steal their sperm and “squeeze one out” to drain the poor guy of all his hard-earned Bush tax-cut engorged income?

        Holey moley. What a wonderful profit maximizing activity for females. See what happens when you let us into the labor force?

        Back to grading.

  2. This is a great Executive Summary on the effect illegal aliens have, and would have if granted amnesty on our economics.

  3. It seems to me that sensible legislation like the Dream act would be able to garner more support if it were clearer that the government was addressing the illegal immigration problem more assiduously. Although contemporary conservatives can’t be relied upon to be reasonable about…well…anything…it seems to me that the average American is pretty reasonable in the main. They want immigration laws enforced, but recognize that children who were brought to the U.S. without their consent, and who have grown up here, deserve a certain amount of consideration.

    I suspect that most Americans feel roughly like I do about this: (a) on the right, there is an unjustifiably–and, indeed, suspiciously–high degree of anger about illegal aliens, and an alarming affinity for Draconian policies…but that (b) on the left, there’s a predictably mushy “aw-let’s-just-hug-’em-all”-ish attitude. I predict that a whole lot of people are like me–they long for reactions and policies that are a little more cool-headed and clear-eyed. In this context I’d say that means, among other things: recognize that there’s a difference between (i) an adult who comes here in conscious violation of the law, and (ii) a minor who is brought here without his consent and grows up here.

    • Well stated. I move left on this when the rightwingers go hysteric. But I’m all about the deal. Kids get to stay, parents have to stay (to support the kids), and when the kids reach age of consent the family has to demonstrate financial self-support, or leave the Country. All will have benefited. Now, what are we going to do with all these obese Natives, living in self-indulgent dietary squalor about to swamp our health care system, and sink Medicaid? Do we build fences around the Kline’s Dairy Bar and McDonalds?

      • Daniel says:

        I’m with ya on the obese population. It’s disgusting! It’s another subject altogether, but I feel a broad percentage of the over-weight people around here revolves around education. People have no idea what they’re buying at Wal-Mart, Burger King, or Denny’s. These stores alone do not make people obese, however, people do not know how to shop and buy things that are good for their bodies or their kids.

        I just got back from Maine, and the people there make the people of the Valley look like fat slobs.

        • Deb SF says:

          Someone needs an irony supplement.

        • Odd that you would relate obesity to education and then say that Mainers appear to be thinner compared to some of the walking masses of flesh we obviously have here.

          Maine’s educational system, I believe, is far worse than Virginia’s.

          • Daniel says:

            I’m not referring to Math, Spanish, and History as taught by SOL standards in Virginia. I’m referring to food and what we put into our bodies. There is a very obvious difference between the people of Maine and the people of Virginia, and I think it goes deeper than just demographics.

            Maine has a Department of Education Child Nutrition Services, which Virginia, for one, does not. I’m sure that helps. Just today I heard (again) on the news that Virginia is looking to change the diets of public school students though the school lunch program. I asked Mr. Lehman a few months ago what he thought of a lunch program like we see Jamie Oliver promoting on TV. His response was “we could not afford it”. Yet, we can afford $6-Billion for Mexican Anchor Babies through Medicaid….

            It cracks me up that people from the Valley get all hot-and-bothered when there is noise made about an Olive Garden coming to town; yet when a place like Local Chop House comes to town it’s just an ordinary occurrence. People of the Valley have NO idea what food is suppose to taste like. It’s like mating with a blow up doll your entire life and thinking it’s real sex. The people here are more concerned about free bread sticks than where their food comes from or how its prepared. That’s just wrong.

            Kids, and adults, have got to learn at some point about what’s good for you and what’s not. I think there are programs in other states that teach our youth better than Virginia does. Heck, ask a high school senior who’s participated in FFA for 4+ years what they think of Monsanto, and they’ll look at you funny and wonder what Monsanto is…

          • Well, you spoke with the man in the county schools alright.

            I agree with your views of what people SHOULD KNOW v. what they ACTUALLY KNOW.

    • Delataire says:


      The law does not differentiate between who came as an adult and who came as a minor. Nor can it, for, then every adult in violation of the law could say that they came here as a child. How would a court be able to prove their statement either true or false?

      This is what the illegal aliens want.


      I do not owe them a single thing. As for their threats they will reap what they have sown.

      • If it’s not possible to distinguish between people who were brought here as kids and those who came as adults, then I certainly agree that the Dream act won’t work. But if that were the case, I can’t imagine that it’d even be on the table. If you could show me that it’s not possible, I’d definitely change my position on the Dream act.

        I don’t doubt that the sign expresses what *some* illegals want–at least one of them apparently–but, then, that’s what some *citizens* want. I can’t believe that a significant number of illegals want that. Or, well, maybe lots of people want a free ride…but nobody (or: very few people) are going to get one. Anyway, the sign is nauseating and idiotic…but there’s no way it’s representative.

        • Delataire says:


          An illegal alien enters the country at age 20, five years later he decides he wants to go to college, so he says “My parents brought me here when I was 10.”

          How do you prove he’s telling the truth or not? How much would it cost to investigate the claims of all these people? This is why it will not work. This is why it has not passed for the last few years that it’s been bandied about. It is time to bury to this feel good legislation and do something productive.

          Jeremy I do not live in fear. I wait the day when this “house of cards” falls down. So I can do what needs to be done for the good of my kith and kin.

          • The bill requires petitioners to prove they were brought here before the age of 16. School records would be an obvious way to do this.

            What are you planning to do that “needs to be done”?

      • Looks photoshopped to me. The chain email it’s been floating around in has already been shown to be partially false (claiming it was from a protest in Phoenix, when the photo was actually taken in LA), and an error analysis glows yellow around the part about killing cops. Nonetheless, if you honestly believe that’s “what the illegal aliens want”, you must really live in fear.

      • Deb SF says:

        Let’s see. A guy carries a sign that says something outrageous through a crowd filled with reporters and all manner of spectators with cell phone cameras and only one (anonymous) person takes a photo – and that one photo is fortunately one where the sign is turned at a perfect angle, straight on to the camera, so we can make out all the text in crystal clear detail?

        Holy coincidence, batman.

      • Bubby Hussein, Hillbilly Sheikh says:

        Wrong Hitlerjugend!Sic Semper Nazis Mofo!

        • Yeah, two seconds after I posted my last comment, I wished I’d added “And I doubt the sign is even for real.” Even if it *were* real, though, it wouldn’t mean much–just that one guy was a moron.

          • Bubby Hussein, Hillbilly Sheikh says:

            The ONLY thing real is that “Delataire” hangs out with Nazi fascists… And their dumbass camp followers. Either way, America has faced his kind before, and prevailed. E pluribus unum!

  4. David Miller says:

    I just want the world to be fair and am perfectly willing to ignore my humanity to achieve that. I exist in a black and white world, why can’t you too? I’m perfectly willing to note all of the costs that I perceive immigrants to be “soaking up” while ignoring the net gain on our economy because frankly, my attention span can’t support such abstract thought.

  5. Deb SF says:

    Daniel, the info you’ve posted has been fact checked and is false.


    According to this link, this comes from a chain email and even the sourced links reject the numbers:

    “The source cited for at least nine of the items is either the conservative Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) or the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), both of which call for more restrictive immigration laws. CIS spokesman Bryan Griffith told us that he had never seen the e-mail but that he suspected something was out there because of occasional surges in traffic that forced him to rewrite Web pages. When told about the e-mail’s contents and conclusion of a $338.3 billion yearly cost, he responded that CIS “never said anything of the like and is not going to comment on a chain e-mail that is in no way scientific.”

    • Deb is right. Anyone touting one of these studies claiming that illegal immigrants are draining or damaging the economy are bamboozled victims or else knowing purveyors of unscientific garbage. While there are disagreements about numbers, and there are certainly some economic costs dut to illegal immigrants, the overwhelming bottom line of all serious studies is that they are a net economic benefit to the US economy.

      When I read someone talking about how advocates of thd DREAM act “get under my skin,” this makes me think that what is going on here has something to do with skin…

    • Daniel says:

      You can find info on the web to argue the point both ways (can’t you always?). But even I can take what I read with a grain of salt. I don’t care what the CIS says or prints, either, as I know they have no idea of the amount of fraud in the system. For some reason it’s not that big of a deal to them, or anyone else for that matter.

      I see the direct drain on the system in Harrisonburg/Rockingham weekly. I’m in the Health Department almost daily, or at least 3-times a week for my job. I see the fraud. The CIS is not reporting the fraud!

      Do I believe everything I read in those links I posted? Hardly. Do I believe everything on the subject posted in FactCheck.org? Hardly. There is no obtainable number available as to what illegals cost us. No one really knows. But I bet it’s a lot closer to 383-Billion than you, or the CIS, thinks.

      I wonder what it costs Medicaid for services provided to illegal aliens, including child birth (anchor babies)? In 2007 it was reported to have cost 6-Billion for Mexican Anchor Babies alone.

      This guy makes some good arguments and articulates them much better than I ever could. Search his reports when you have time, it’s interesting. http://immigration.procon.org/view.source.php?sourceID=003102

      • Daniel,
        First of all, your link only talks about numbers of illegal immigrants, not their economic costs or benefits, much less the “fraud” you are so worked up about that you claim to see, but which does not get reported by practically anybody else. Why is that? Maybe it is not as bad as the fraud committed by native-born US citizens? But, heck, I suppose any by illegal immigrants would get under your very important skin.

        Some sources that make clear that even illegal immigrants are probably a net economic benefit, although certain groups may be hurt, such as high school dropouts in certain locales, include:




        Sorry if any of these do not work. All pulled off of google.

        • Daniel says:

          Post some links that work. I’d really like to read them before commenting.

        • Professor Rosser, just because the media doesn’t report on it doesn’t mean it’s not occurring.

          Take for example, the two decades of criminal acts engaged in by non-attorneys in the Virginia Division of Child Support Enforcement, and the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS who had either property illegally taken from them, or in the alternative, we jailed as a result of the acts, all swept under the rug by a single piece of legislation proposed by Bob McDonnell with a retroactive component.

          Not ONE article about that, even by the Virginia Lawyers Weekly who reported on a single case where a Fairfax County judge tossed a contempt charge because of a single criminal act by a single employee.

          The mainstream media only reports on what THEY want you to know. Obviously, ONE MILLION unenforceable court orders caused by the actions of state employees is newsworthy, however, the widespread reporting on that would necessarily bankrupt the Commonwealth.

          • Dave,

            I am sympathetic with you on this one. However, that it is occurring in this case does not mean that it is occurring in other cases. After all, lots of people would like to hear about the sort of fraud that Daniel claims to have observed, and there are all kinds of exaggerated and even outright false reports and claims being made against illegal immigrants. If this is really a big problem, why then are we not hearing about it? We are also not hearing about reports of the CIA being run by Martians. Does this also reflect a coverup by the media?

      • Brooke says:

        Daniel, I’m curious about the fraud you see. What evidence are you seeing that tells you fraud is going on (not saying it isn’t going on, just how do YOU know), and if you do see evidence, why don’t YOU report it?

        • Brooke,

          I reported fraud by the Virginia Division of Child Support Enforcement to the Federal Office of Child Support Enforcement for Region III, which covers Virginia.

          They referred me to the Director of Virginia’s Division of Child Support Enforcement and report the fraud of his own agency to him.

        • Brooke says:

          Dave I was asking Daniel a very specific question about a very specific topic that he brought up.

          To be clear, I am not in any way, shape, or form interested in more information on your crusade on behalf of dead-beat dads everywhere.

  6. Daniel says:

    Just one example is this. An illegal alien parent can receive benefits for the use of his/her citizen child(ren). These benefits include, but are not limited to, Aid to Families With Dependent Children (AFDC),Food Stamp program, Supplemental Security Income (SSI), and Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) rental housing. These programs are intended for low-income families.

    The misrepresentations, or fraud, within the illegal alien “community”, is the under-reporting of income.

    But wait, an illegal alien cannot legally work in the United States though. So it must not be happening. So really, there is no income to report making under-reporting a bogus concern. Yawn…

    We know illegal alien’s are working. We see it everyday and hear about it in the news paper every few weeks. But for some reason people are hesitant to allow the Sheriffs Office, or even the INS, to do their jobs in rounding these people up — or at a minimum allow the government to punish the employers who hire illegal alien’s. They’ve broken the law by coming here and the law should be enforced. This is one reason why I support the FAIR TAX because is basically jerks the welcome mat out from under these types of people. But that’s another subject altogether.

    So the illegal alien comes here and pops out a child. That child is entitled to benefits through our various programs. The illegal alien cannot provide income statements and the government cannot prove otherwise because this person is not even in the system. So we (tax payers) give this child housing, food, medical care, etc…

    What happens now is these illegal alien’s bring their families to town and share this home the tax payers are paying for. They might even charge rent. Or, they’ll allow another anchor baby mother/father to move in and share benefits with each other.

    Most of these type families are eligible and are receiving more than one benefit. The law says you can receive AFDC, Food Stamps and Housing; however, if you’re receiving AFDC you’re not eligible for SSI.

    What you will not find in news reports, or links provided by Mr. Rosser, is the abuse found within the SSI and HUD programs. There is no such data. None. That’s why it is not possible to put a dollar figure on what these illegal aliens provide, or take away, to the US economy…because we have no idea.

    In a nut shell, illegal aliens come here, pop out a child or four, lie about their income, take the benefits designed for our own low-income or disabled citizens, and use that money/assistance to better themselves while still sending money back to Mexico to assist other family there.

    This is just one example.

    • Brooke says:

      Ok, that may all be true. What I’m curious about is your claims that you’ve actually seen it while visiting the Health Department. How, during a visit, without actually being involved in a client’s case history, do you ascertain that an individual or individual(s) is a)an illegal immigrant and b) is under reporting their income.

      You didn’t say it happens. You said you’ve SEEN it firsthand. I am curious how you are able to evaluate this? Or are you making assumptions based on statistics?

      • Daniel says:

        I don’t have any statistics to base it on. But it is quite common for this to happen. The employees of the Health Department know it’s going, but there is not a lot they can do about it. Some would like to do something about it, other do not want to get involved and just want to do their jobs, and others have a soft spot for the people in these types of positions. But even if it is reported, heads turn the other way.

        As for me seeing it and hearing about it, that just goes with the territory. You do not read about the cockroaches in the kitchen of Dragon Palace, either. But when you’re close to the source you pick up bits and pieces of the details. It would be hard for me to tell you how I know what I do without getting the innocent in trouble. But when you’re around the office as much as I am you pick up on whats being talked about.

      • Brooke says:

        So it sounds like you *haven’t* actually seen it firsthand, you’ve just heard about it from people who work with the population, and have presumably seen it firsthand. That’s different than what you indicated in your post, Daniel.

        • Daniel says:

          LOL, yeah, okay, Brook.

        • Brooke says:

          LOL I think you see my point. I don’t doubt that it happens. Fraud is a problem in general – both in the immigrant and native born populations. And I agree if it’s seen (first hand) it needs to be reported, regardless of the immigration status of the person perpetrating the fraud.

          I guess I’m just leery of people seeking to strengthen their point(s) by claiming to have seen things first hand. when it’s often not the case. Sort of like the people I often hear claiming to “know” the brown-skinned person they see speaking to a friend (or on a phone) in Spanish is an “illegal immigrant who is refusing to learn English.” And to paint this as though it’s primarily a problem in the immigrant population is just not an argument based in reality. This is far more widespread than just the immigrant population, and I think we both know it.

          • Lowell Fulk says:

            Well done Ms. Chao.

          • Daniel says:

            Short of posting real names along with their AKA’s and employers, I don’t know how else to explain it to you, Brooke. You now it’s happening, I know it’s happening, the Health Department knows it’s happening, and the governor knows it’s happening. Nothing gets done about it, though. The only one who seems to be living in La-La Land is Lowell, but we’ve known that for years.

          • Brooke says:

            Let me ask you this, Daniel, when you say “it” do you mean fraud in general, or just among those you believe to be here illegally?

            I guess that’s my biggest question, because, honestly? The way you are phrasing it, it sounds VERY much like you think this is an immigrant population problem (and therefore where the focus should be placed), and not a widespread problem across those receiving entitlement services, as is almost certainly the case.

            Either way YOU don’t seem willing to do anything about it, so why in the world would you expect anyone else to? You claim to have direct knowledge of the problem (a claim I am still dubious of) and yet you seem unwilling to do anything to address the problem.

          • Daniel says:

            When I say “it”, I’m referring to fraud among the illegal aliens. Of course the illegals are not the only culprits here as I think you will find that the majority of welfare moms are US citizens.

            As for me doing anything about it…what can you do? No one wants to listen. I guess we could repeal the 14th amendment, lol. But seriously, it’s an issue no public figure wants to get involved with. It’s funny how I can write Mr. Goodlatte a letter commenting about the national forest revision plans, fire/rescue operations, gun laws, etc.. and receive a signed letter back within 2 or 3 weeks with his comments. However when letters are sent on this topic, you never hear a word back.

            I say screw the DREAM Act and pass the FAIR TAX. This would auto correct some of these loop-holes while forcing the estimated “12-Million illegals” to pay into the system.

          • Brooke says:

            Daniel – If a person is here illegally, using a fake SSN to get work, they are paying into the system, and are unlikely to be able to ever collect any benefit from it. Unless they are working completely under the table (some are, many are not), taxes, SSN and other things will be taken out of their pay checks. And they already pay taxes on anything they purchase that has a tax levied on it, including food, clothing, telephone services (either cell or land line), etc.

            I’ve always found the “they don’t pay into the system” to be a silly argument. They all pay in SOME way.

            But back to my original point, Daniel. Why focus specifically on just suspected fraud among illegal aliens? The problem isn’t fraud among illegal aliens. The problem is lack of enforcement of income requirements. You making it an immigration issue doesn’t really help your case.

  7. Daniel says:

    Mr. Rosser,
    I’m not sure if you’re confused on the definition of an immigrant v. and alien. An illegal immigrant is someone who has overstayed their Visa; while an illegal alien is someone who crossed the border illegally. I think you’re talking about, or referring to, aliens, but I’m not sure. Either way, ponder this.

    Highly skilled immigrants are a huge benefit and they will continue to be in the future. In fact they are one of the most crucial factors in our countries future as the development of new ideas from other countries will come here to be developed and the resultant industry will produce jobs and a higher tax base.

    Low skilled labor from other nations will take jobs from people here that need them and will keep the going rate for labor related jobs lower then needs to be to to boost consumer confidence. If labor related jobs only provide subsistence living then the economy will continue to be sluggish. When labor jobs are paying a fair wage those dollars go straight into the economy and stimulate growth.

    On one hand the DREAM Act offers some relief to kids who where brought here illegally with no say in the matter. On the other hand, it does nothing for kids who came legally as derivatives of parents on work visas such as H1B’s or E visas. The legal kids age out and have to leave when they turn 18 or 21, I don’t recall what the cutoff is at the moment, but it does not really matter.

    Although I have some compassion for someone who were brought here as a kid, grew up thinking they were no different than anyone else and suddenly find all doors closed after high school, I do have a problem with giving them a free pass while telling the kids who came legally to piss off and go home once they age out.

    As for illegal immigrants being a net benefit, I suppose that depends on how you crunch the numbers. I’m not going there again. And I have never been an advocate of a general amnesty.

    One thing I will say though – there certainly would be a shortage of hot exotic women working at strip clubs if there were no illegal immigration.

    • Daniel,

      This will be my last comment on this thread, and it will be to state that you utterly lack a shred of credibility on this matter, starting with your whining about how all this gets under your skin. The latest is in your supposed recitation of all the terrible frauds that illegal aliens are supposedly committing when you repeatedly refer to “AFDC” and “INS.” Neither exists. AFDC was replaced by TANF back when Bill Clinton was president, and INS was replaced by ICE not too long after 9/11. You are just completely out of it, and I suggest you post no more on this matter given that fact.

  8. Tina says:

    FYI: NPR’s “Talk of the Nation” will be focusing on the Dream Act and will feature Harrisonburg resident Isabel Castillo tomorrow (Thursday) during the first hour of the show. It airs at 2pm on WMRA. http://www.wmra.org

  9. Annie says:

    The Dream Act is not meant for those persons who come here illegally of their own choice. The Dream Act are for those young people who where brought here by their parents. Some of those posting refer to these persons as people who have committed crimes and as criminals. Without criminal intent or having reached the age of majority, they can not be considered as having committed a crime.

    There is no doubt that they are here illegally. However, this is the only home they know. They have benefited from our educational system. (And yes possibly the health department and social services too.) The Dream Act provides a reasonable way for these young people to really contribute to this country fully after working with the process and following the rules. Remember, it is not immediate.

    • Except, Annie, that all of these illegal aliens who are grown up now know that they are in the country illegally.

      If they were truly concerned about “following the rules”, they’d self-deport. Then they’d get back in line, telling us how good they’d be for our country….and wait in line behind those who wished to legally enter our country before them.

      • Dave,

        Why should there even be a line?

        • There should be a line, Professor Rosser, because if we have uncontrolled immigration from third-world countries, we’ll be on our way to becoming a third-world country.

          I realize that the concept of “white guilt” is prevalent on this blog, however I’m almost as sure that if you guys wanted to live in a third-world country, you’d likely have already moved to one.

      • Jeremy Aldrich says:

        What line would they get into? What visa category would a high school graduate from Central America with no special skills be eligible for?

        • They wouldn’t have one, Jeremy.

          But then no one, except a citizen of the United States and those otherwise having made legal entry, has any right to enter our Country.

          That’s what this entire argument is about.

          • So your suggestion of what real local people like Isabel should do was written knowing that it was entirely impractical? Classy!

            Gee, we could suggest solutions to a lot of problems if we simply ignored reality:

            “Yes, you young people with asthma should simply grow new lungs!”

            Unfortunately, this tactic of (knowingly?) pretending there is a simple solution to the difficult problem of what to do with the children of undocumented immigrants is all too common. People pretend that these kids have other options when they don’t. Unfortunately, it’s usually the same people who start to caterwaul when actual, workable solutions like the DREAM Act are suggested.

  10. Ross says:

    This has been an interesting thread however, could you start a new one? Maybe, on the history of the
    Christmas Tree? Or what’s the latest on the voting fraud that supposedly took place, can you interview the person that made the accusations? Thanks!

  11. Delataire says:

    I wonder: if this dream act was passed, but also included a clause that said absolutely zero persons could immigrate from Latin American countries for 100 years and all persons found entering or to have entered the country illegally will serve a mandatory 20 year prison term, would those who support the dream act still support it or not?

    • I’d be very OK with immigration law EXACTLY like Mexico’s.

    • Brooke says:

      No I would not support the act if it contained a similar clause, because I think that’s Draconian. Why in the world would you think anyone would be ok with that. I think only the most hard hearted and unrealistic would be ok with a stipulation like that.

      As far as Dave’s comment, I think emulating the policies of a country that people are fleeing from, due to rampant poverty and corruption is short-sited at *very best* and just plain stupid at worst.

      • Delataire says:

        Brooke as negitively as you may feel about my suggestion, I feel just as negitively about the “dream act”. You would not support an act with such a clause, yet you expect me to support the dream act. Why? Do you see the hypocrisy that is coming from your side?

        As for Dave’s comment, have you ever studied the rights that a mexican citizen has with regards to the way he or she can treat an illegal alien within mexico?

  12. Brooke says:

    I don’t expect anything from you Delataire. Except veiled (and sometimes not so veiled) attempts to convince people that America is was created by and for white people.

    I’m not sure how your example is relevant. No one is asking for the opposite of that, so how does the 100 years and 20 years stipulations in any way shape or form make your argument. Given your past posting history, I fully expect people like you to be against this bill. Thankfully most of America does not hold the same views as you on immigration and diversity, or at least I hope they don’t.

  13. It all just depends what you think the problem is, doesn’t it? If you think the problem is brown people, then of course you wouldn’t support the DREAM Act. If you think the problem is the negative consequences of undocumented immigration, however, you can look at partial solutions like the DREAM Act with a different viewpoint. The DREAM Act helps deal with several problems like:

    – How we can recoup the costs of educating undocumented children? (Answer: the same way we recoup the cost of education for everyone else, namely by helping them become successful taxpayers)

    – How can we help boost military enlistment at a time of troop exhaustion? (Answer: by making it possible for several hundred thousand young people who grew up here and love this country to serve when they couldn’t before)

    – How can we balance our respect for the law with the recognition that these are kids who had no choice in the misdemeanor crimes of their parents? (Answer: by providing honest and hard-working young people with a path out of the shadows)

    You can tell a lot about whether someone understands and is willing to seriously support real solutions to the difficult problems of undocumented immigration by the way they respond to efforts like the DREAM Act.

    • And to be clear here, I’m not assuming what Delataire’s views on brown people are. He has frequently used the word “mexcrement” when he’s on white supremacist message boards to refer to all Hispanics. He cleans up his act a little when he’s around non white-power folks like us (who he calls “lemmings”), but occasionally loses his cool and has comments put into moderation for obscenity-filled tirades about how misunderstood National Socialism is.

      • Brooke says:

        Wow, I knew it was bad (from other posts I’ve seen linked). It didn’t know how bad. I’m not sure I can take anyone who talks that way about minorities seriously when it comes to discussing issues like the Dream Act. There’s definitely an ulterior motive at play, and it’s ugly.

      • Delataire says:

        Jeremy what about your liberal friends here? Typical liberal double standards on your part.

        However on to your assumptions:

        Recoup the costs of education: If they stay here and do not return to their native country as so many have said they would after they received some kind of “benefit”

        Serving in the armed forces: If they volunteer. If we had a conscription military I would agree. But we don’t.

        Balance a law that has been broked? Give me a break. These people are just as guilty as their parents, because at some point they had to become aware that they had broken the law. What did Isabel do? Did she turn herself in, or did she use whatever underhanded illegal tactic she could to get by. And then she had the gall to brag about it when she met our fine outstanding representative. That’s just so polite.

        Perhaps you could understand it like this: A student vandalizes your car in the school parking lot, then comes into your classroom, tells you to your face that he/she did it, then demands that you educate him/her because you owe him/her. What would you do in such a case?

        You have laws, regardless if they’re good/bad, outdated or not. If you do not enforce them then you effectively have no laws. In such an environment you reach an eventual boiling point. It’s been said that “history repeats itself” When the next civil war happens whose side will you be on. The uniforms will not be blue and grey, but instead the color of your skin.

        • JGFitzgerald says:

          How is it that by posting here, we become Jeremy’s liberal friends, yet Delaware posts here and isn’t anybody’s friend? Typical nativist double standard.

        • I’m less worried about a coming race war than a coming war between people with innies versus those with outies, or a war between folks who can curl their tongues against those who can’t. Or (God forbid), a three-way war between right-handed, left-handed, and ambidextrous soldiers. Clearly the third group would be smaller in number but could operate two weapons at once!

          By the way, if you did get your race war it’s obvious what you’d do to brown people and Jews, but how would you treat us “lemmings”?

        • bazrik says:

          “When the next civil war happens whose side will you be on. The uniforms will not be blue and grey, but instead the color of your skin.” Are you saying a race war is inevitable, or are you saying it “needs” to happen, and that people need to take sides?

          • Daniel says:

            I love it when the “race card” is thrown.

          • bazrik says:

            No card thrown by me here – I’m asking Delataire about the “war” he describes between people of different “skin color”. How would you prefer I phrase this question?

          • Delataire says:

            It’s going to happen one way or another. Though rather than race war, I expect it will be termed something along the lines of “ethnic” “gang” war as is currently happening in parts of S. CA..

          • Scott Whitten says:

            For a clearer picture of how this “race war” might play out, check out “Racist in the Year 3000”

          • bazrik says:

            Seriously?? The “war” is coming??

            First, this should clarify to Daniel who’s pushing the issue of race here just a tad.

            Second, Delataire, you have just flagged every comment you could make from here on out as the rantings of a militant extremist. Really, we need to “pick sides” in the inevitable “race war”? We need to tell you “which side we’ll be on”? Do you really think you’re helping with this kind of saber rattling, or do you maybe think that this kind of crud is part of the problem? Grow up.

          • Daniel says:

            Come on, this thread is getting so slow it’s getting lame. We need more racist talk with more people involved. Where are all the anti-DREAM Act folks (racists) at?

            Briggman, where you at? I hear you don’t like peanuts. You damn racist.


        • Brooke says:

          Hmmmm, I guess if I have to pick a “side” in a hypothetical “race war”, I choose sanity, as opposed to xenophobic paranoia.

          • Scott Whitten says:

            Hey, as long as it’s hypothetical you might as well go crazy. I personally will choose to side with the machines after they become sentient and hell bent on world domination.

          • Brooke says:

            Skynet here we come. LOL

          • Delataire says:


            “This is war!” claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. “Republicans may have stopped the DREAM Act, but they won’t prevent La Reconquista from happening. “White people, watch out!”

            There are others as well, one girl says to do what the blacks did, and one says to be non-violent. However, how many feel as Aldemar does?

          • Scott Whitten says:

            Well that is quite a hasty generalization, no? As you mentioned, a Latino woman was quoted in the same article as stating “rioting and any type of violence won’t help our cause”. I wonder how many feel as she does. Taking one extreme statement and speculating about the number of people who might agree with it is not a solid argument. You’re going to have to do better than that to convince anyone with even a shred of common sense.

          • Brooke says:

            Scott’s right. After all, Delataire, your leap in logic makes about as much sense as assuming all white people are as racist as you are, based on comments like yours on message boards. Thankfully they would be wrong.

          • seth says:

            personally, the only mexican i’m afraid of is danny trejo.

          • Brooke says:

            I wish we had a “like” feature on hburgnews, seth. That was priceless.

          • bryan says:

            machete don’t text.

    • Delataire says:

      As I said it would not pass. Perhaps now “Comprehensive Immigration Reform” which to me means something that applies equally to all across the board can be worked on. Rather than these pathetic acts which pick and choose a select few. That’s what you’ll need to get one to pass.

  14. Bazrik says:

    Wow, one person said something! I’ve never heard any single white person say anything threatening, violent, or reactionary, so I can’t make any generalizations…

  15. Delataire says:

    I ask a simple question to which no one has an answer. Typical of the left which is content to sit inside their little box called the living room. Dependent upon the police being able to come and rescue them if there ever is any sort of problem.

    If the police are too busy trying to save themselves, who will save you then?

    I ask you to do me one favor. Take whatever number you wish that you feel is representive of the number of illegal aliens (or undocumented, or any other term you feel is appropriate) in this country. Then take 1 percent of that number and think about how much damage they can do if they follow Aldemar’s lead of being at war and that White people should watch out.

    Problems tend to grow and spread. And while someone like Aldemar may not be here yet, eventually someone like him will come. Just as a few years ago no one thought we would have gang graffitti, yet here it is today all over our “friendly” city.

    • Brooke says:

      Does it not occur to you that there are nuts in all races in this country? White people are no exception. What percentage of white folk in this country are absolutely bananas and hell-bent on stockpiling arms in compounds and taking on the whole country? You don’t think THEY could do some damage? Look, bottom line? I don’t live in fear of wackos with violent fantasies and delusions of grandeur – whether they be black, brown, or white.

      My point stands. If we judge entire races by the minority of extremists, then we are the stupid ones and letting ourselves be ruled by fear.

      If the time comes, then I’m sure we’ll seek to protect ourselves appropriately. In the meantime I’m not going to live my life in fear, and denigrate entire groups of people based on knee-jerk hysteria and racism.

    • bazrik says:

      Yes. We should all grab our muskets and get behind the fences. “They” are coming. They’re coming!!!

  16. Does it not occur to you that there are nuts in all races in this country? White people are no exception. What percentage of white folk in this country are absolutely bananas and hell-bent on stockpiling arms in compounds and taking on the whole country? You don’t think THEY could do some damage? Look, bottom line? I don’t live in fear of wackos with violent fantasies and delusions of grandeur – whether they be black, brown, or white. My point stands. If we judge entire races by the minority of extremists, then we are the stupid ones and letting ourselves be ruled by fear. If the time comes, then I’m sure we’ll seek to protect ourselves appropriately. In the meantime I’m not going to live my life in fear, and denigrate entire groups of people based on knee-jerk hysteria and racism.

  17. Bubby Hussein, Hillbilly Sheikh says:

    America Wins! Another conviction for Roanoke Nazi.

  18. Renee says:

    Did you notice the line the President slipped into the State of the Union address about the DREAM act?

    “One last point about education. Today, there are hundreds of thousands of students excelling in our schools who are not American citizens. Some are the children of undocumented workers, who had nothing to do with the actions of their parents. They grew up as Americans and pledge allegiance to our flag, and yet live every day with the threat of deportation. Others come here from abroad to study in our colleges and universities. But as soon as they obtain advanced degrees, we send them back home to compete against us. It makes no sense.”

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